Thinking of a gun slinger SS who uses hip fired pistols.

I assume that if I enter VATS without looking down the sites I'm in hip fire VATS mode, right?

Also it would appear that all sights/scopes above standard only help sights firing, which means for hip firing the additional accuracy don't count at all right?

This SS will rely heavily on VATS while gunslinging, so what Perks and SPECIAL would be most helpful?

Thanks.

I don't think VATS uses hip-fire or sighted aiming for it's accuracy calculations, but the animation I think will always be aiming down the sights.

I never did a character specifically for hip-firing, but I did focus one character's SPECIAL into STR and AGI for a super shooter oriented character - mostly to get Steady Aim and Quick Hands. I can say that Steady Aim is definitely worth it. Takes a few levels to shore up your SPECIAL to where you need it all to go, though, if that's your direction (and I'd try and justify the STR with other reasons to take it - melee + pistols has been a winning combination for me, if that helps). One thing about Pistols is that, non-scoped, they're pretty damn great in VATS - so I'd suggest running them with a Luck/critical hit oriented build. I'd at least go up to 7 LCK for Critical Banker, not sure the Luck perks beyond that are as worth taking.

To go all 'cowboy' I was wanting to use only revolvers also, which basically means I have two guns, the .44 revolver and the .45 pipe revolver. May have to add shotgun for close range since I've never actually used one before, double barrel only of course. Add to that a hunting rifle for extreme long range.

Just to be really different from prior runs I'm thinking of going non-crafting ... getting all my mods from looting. Going to be challenging, but that's also kind of the point.

Boost up Agl and Per, for a start. Ensure that you reduce recoil, as from what I have seen I think it does have an impact in VATS. The more helpful perks are in the higher levels of Per and Agl, so you need to boost those as I said.

For what it's worth, the Sawed-Off Shotgun slays with critical hits. But I don't think I've seen very many double-shotguns that were modded.

If you're going for a Cowboy-style build, then you can't forget explosives and only maybe can you forget melee. At any rate, you definitely want to spec in Perception. The .44, Double-Shotgun, and Hunting Rifle should cover your basic needs well enough. I'd also say the Intimidate perk is right up your alley, but this build is already asking for a lot of SPECIAL investment. Your call.

This is good stuff. I'm trying for a melee character with automatic guns as backup, so I'll have high S, A and L anyway (I opted for L over E cause I wanna try 4 leaf clover and crit banker).

I imagine putting most points into melee, but with Commando and Steady Aim for backup. I'm also fond of Demolition, though, which I can see working very well with a melee character. Plop a few mines, then open the dance with a grenade to liven up the crowd and then finish strong with a bowl fist-soup.

And OP, I think BOX is right that VATS don't care which mode you're in.

I've just reached lvl 20 in my no-crafting build and have finally given in and taken Gun Nut 1 & 2 (at the same time). Due to the level caps on Perks, I am pretty heavily bottlenecked with no ability to spend any points on any of my primary perks for several more levels. That's Commando, Big Leagues, Explosives, Scrounger, Steady Hands, Chemi Resistant, etc all "maxed" for my level, and SPECIALS at reasonable levels with no compelling reason to raise them "just because." It just became time to get into some gunsmithing. And from an RP standpoint, the starting idea should allow some growth into areas that were not part of the SS's pre-war life, don't you think?

But I'll tell you, avoiding the crafting perks in the beginning really accelerates combat ability. Compared to my first character who at this point had spent at least five perks on crafting (Gun Nut 2, Armorer 2, and Science! 1) I'm a lot more capable in a fight.

That's kind of what I'm going for. I've retired four characters now and all of them relied heavily on the crafting perks and I just want to get away from that (kind of like relying on Smithing in Skyrim). But then I'm trying to figure out how I would handle a group of charging Super Mutants with nothing but a revolver and double barrel shotgun ... and I get kind of depressed. This character is definitely going to be using a lot more strategy than my last guy who was all Commando and blasted away anything with one or two burst from his fully upgraded assault rifle.

Definitely will be using explosives also, though I wish they had TNT as grenades are not very cowboy like.

Another change, no modern healing (stimpaks, etc.). All my healing will be from items I cook. Cooking is something I really skipped over in the past and there is really a lot to it. Main issue there will be rad poisoning. There is some cooked dog meat that can cure it, but it appears to be bugged and doesn't heal nearly as much as the description states.

Refreshing Beverage is your friend, although on Survival difficulty it only removes 100 Rads instead of 1000.

Yes, but it seems awkward that it requires a Stimpak and Radaway to make it. Oh well.

My char was using both hip fire and scoped aiming in vats. But I've read that the accuracy is the same in both cases and those are just animations, as accuracy is dictated by the accuracy stat of the weapon (and perception obviously). Although a scope can drastically cut off your vats hits, so it's best to just stick to reflex sights.

For vats its best to start out with max agility for max ap points. Then get the bobblehead for 11 agility. Though if you get vats enhanced pistols like the Deliverer this wouldn't be so necessary. Kellog's pistol is nice too. A high perception is also needed for vats, especially with pistols who have poor medium to long range accuracy (compared to rifles), start of with at least 5 perception. Then ingame you can progressively take luck points cause a higher luck means filling your critical meter faster, and luck perks are the best for vats: better criticals to finish off tougher enemies faster, critical banker to always have 3 criticals at your disposal, grim reapers sprint to refill your action points ~every 3 kills, four leaf clover to refill your criticals.

Perks to get: gunslinger whenever possible, action boy to refill your action points faster, concentrated fire that makes you more accurate with each shot (works great with pistols cause you have many shots), penetrator that lets you shoot enemies who are taking cover, through obstacles, gun fu to do more damage to your second enemy and beyond in a vats session, and the luck perks above, especially grim reapers sprint that is practically unlimited action points, thus unlimited vats.

Hip fire is free aim without looking down the sites. It has no impact on VATS.


A VATS luck/agility gunslinger is just a beast! One of the strongest builds. Get the luck perks from better crits, crit banker, grim reapers sprint and four leaf clover. 8-9 luck to start.


From the agility line get action boys and work your way up to gun fu. But that is not as important.


Basically with a low AP pistol you will be just be a critical hit machine. Every 5-6 shoots from VATS will earn you a crit shot.


Go get Kellogg's pistol to become even more powerful.


Shotguns are not a pistol though, but really no need when you are using a pistol on a crit build

How do you come to the thought that "Wild West" gunfighters used hip firing? At least the successful surely did not. So you can simulate your 'cowboy' also with normal aiming.

This whole idea started when I was going through some gun mods and kept noticing that several would say 'improved AIMED firing', which got me wondering what about UNAIMED firing, or hip firing. Is it feasible? And things kind of went from there. Old West or not you don't always have the time to aim, and sometimes you just don't want too because it slows you down, so I'm trying to see if building around hip-firing would work.

At least it's a good way to miss. Unless you have good training and the target is not so far away. To make hitting visually even more improbable, as far as I know there is a revolver fanning mod on the Nexus, if you are on PC.

Hip shooting or "point shooting" is actually a very valid method with proper training. It has been used WWII and is still in use by the Israeli Defense Force. It is not intended for long-range engagements, but 7-10 yard ranges. Its major advantages are that it is "threat-focused" and allows easy movement by the shooter for taking cover and avoiding incoming fire.