there's not much to do in NV, its a barren map with few human enemies and very few buildings or points of interest, the map and locations are mostly desolate, its not even a game worth comparing to fallout 4, there's like 1000 times more things to do and buildings to explore and enemies to fight, NV has like 2 robots to fight on the entire map, probably a dozen supermutants [usually just standing in the middle of nowhere at that], 10 raiders, a few fiends, thats about it, the rest is creatures and the locations on the map are really non existent, usually a few tents, a small shack or cave, thats it, so its just a totally different game and its void of anything to do other than reading dialogue and just moving around in an empty desert with little and few far between locations.

I like the combined system but don't like how theoretically you can get every perk like in Skyrim.

Skyrim's Perk Extravaganza mod added perks which only certain races could have, for example, and certain perks were only available if you finished specific quests. Couple that with an attributes mod and it's the most varied levelling system I have ever used. Any other levelling system seems lacklustre to me.

Where did i write that i maxxed out everything? I wrote that i turned into uber a lot faster then in NV.

My char was at level 120 i played last some weeks ago. Attributes all on 10 and weapon skills as well as damage support skills maxxed as well as crafting etc. There is more maxxed but it is absolutely NOT necessary as it does not impact the play progress at all, not even the style how you play your character. No speech check blocks you from any progress, no locked door blocks you from progress, no locked terminal blocks you from progress, no longer underwatertravel blocks you from progress, no animals or robots block you from progress, not day not night blocks you from progress, NOTHING blocks you.

All other skills are so obsolete that they don′t even require to be skilled. For what shall someone skill lockpick or hacking, for the 10 bullets or bucks more in a safe? 75%+ of the skills are unecessary, don′t really change the gameplay style or block you from doing anything.

Bethesda has managed to implent an oversimplified system into a world that even does not really require most of the simplificated skills.

And the funny thing is, my F4 char hits and kills faster then mine in NV could ever do, even over a distance. And after i found that glorious explosive minigun i realized that even putting points into the weapon skills was nonsense at all as the legendary system overrides my skills there, too.

yes, however this could be done with perks and or specials too

I like the idea of "learning by doing" quite a lot - but it was not consequent enough in Skyrim. If you do nothing but smithing iron daggers, you should only become good in smithing iron daggers, and not much else

I agree, that don't make much sense. It might be better to have a system where you first have to find a blacksmith who can teach you to make glass weapons before you can start smithing glass weapons. This way you can add further restrictions - maybe an elven blacksmith would never teach a non-elve how to make elven weapons, or something like that.

Same, I think the reason it's not like that already is due to the unlimited cap and the speed at which you get exp. If you could select perks unrestricted by level you could max stuff incredibly fast, and then what? I like the way the system presents the perks, because it's really easy to understand you don't need to read the requeriments of a convoluted amount of perks because you instantly figure them out the way they are positioned. But I think this balancing crap is Obsidian's fault, they are the ones who keep nerfind stuff in their games, and several Fallout fans have been requesting Bethesda to learn from them, so they probably listened to the community to make abusive and unfun balances like this in order to make the games as boring as others out there like Pillars of Eternity. I hate when developers nerf the [censored] out of their games to the point they are no longer fun and they call it balance. It ruins the experience. Bethesda is known for giving players freedom, but this time they didn't.

Level requeriments force you to pick other perks until you can keep getting better at what your character is supose to do, that means you always slowly level up in progressions of jack of all trades characters for balancing purposes which is not so fun.

I like the system. A lot of the skills didn't really work until you hit a number threshold anyway, which is the same as the current perk system, just streamlined. My only wish was that there were double the perks- two perks for each special level to choose from that unlocked more abilities, either in crafting, combat, or dialog to further develop your character. Some times you could choose both while other times choosing one would lock the other, like lady killer opposite confirmed bachelor.

I don't understand how that's possible having played both FO3 and FO4. My personal experience is just the opposite. admittedly, I'm playing multiple characters but I have 100s of hours in the game. They are much more differentiated than my FO3 characters built on similar concepts. I only have about 50 hours in NV so i can't really judge there but seemed faster than FO4 up to that point.

Voted for the old system, but could do with a few improvements.

I dislike the way Beth instead of improving and making better what is already there, like other things will prefer to take the easy and quick way, and then call it "steamlining".

Simplified and barebone comes to mind regarding the new system. The old one wasn't perfect, far from it, but it felt more natural somehow for me. With some work and overhaul, I would prefer the old system which was more suited for RPG in my view. However, In reality, there isn't much difference between the two systems when it comes to actual skills. They are both still using the 25/25/25/25 system more or less when it comes to weapon skills and utility skills that requires a certain skill level to attempt (hacks and lockpicks etc.) altho FO4 have fewer steps in some of them, more in others and FO4 gates them behind levels. Gating skills behind levels only mean that they (e.g. Bethesda) have an easier time balancing the game, at the cost of player freedom. Who's to say my character wasn't a highly regarded specialist in computers from the military? Well, gating says so.

Former system didn't have level gating of skills, which were actual skills, only the perks. Whereas in FO4 perks becomes skills. Dunno why they didn't just call them skills, since that is what they are in function in FO4. Perks in FO3 / NV was a bonus thing, that helped shape your character further. In that regard FO4 is a real lackluster for me, since skills in FO4 is only that. No skill / SPECIAL requirement for using certain weapons effectively nor for armour. So while the old system let you have 100 science with 1 int, the new system let you wield a minigun with 1 str as if it was natural, and you are a computer genius with average int. FO4 also have have some weird perks / skills to say the least, where at least half of them, you wouldn't consider them as first picks, ever.

None of the two systems are perfect, but in my opinion, the old one had far more potential with some tweaking, to make choices makes sense.

Disclaimer: I've only played enough FO3 and FONV to know that I didn't enjoy playing them, so I can't really compare the systems.

The only thing I don't like about the FO4 system is that the requirements for getting any perk are strongly tied to its primary attribute. Like REL_Dovahkin pointed out, that eliminates some potentially very fun, counter-intuitive builds where "skill," "training," or "experience" (all in the form of perks) overcome one's native limitations. Similarly, I'm not too fond of level-gating, but I get why it's there.

In a more general sense, I believe that the particulars of an [ attribute / skill / perk / talent / feat / what-have-you system ] almost don't matter for RPGs*. So long as the system allows a variety of effective builds within certain reasonable limits ("reasonable" as defined by the game world), I'm pretty well set. No system will be perfect, even with iterations on a theme, so I don't sweat the drawbacks so long as they don't "get in my way," if that makes sense.

* Ignoring for the moment any and all arguments to the effect that "Fallout 4 isn't really an RPG because reasons..."