Any Economics mods?

Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:38 pm

Anyone know of any mods that include an overhaul of the economic systems in Morrowind? Morrowind is a great game, but the one thing I've always hated is the economic system in the game (and in Oblivion too).

I'd like to see some things where the vendors behave a little bit more dynamically.

* Stuff you sell to vendors should disappear from their inventory over time as they sell it off to other customers (perhaps some of the inventory gets sold to other vendors, so shows up in the other vendor's inventory).

* Stuff like potions, alchemy ingredients, arrows, etc. shouldn't respawn immediately, *but* if there's stuff the vendor is consistently selling out of, they should increase the amount they have available for sale the next time they respawn (yes, I know about the trick of selling stuff back to a respawning vendor to increase inventory, which is convenient for the player, but doesn't seem very immersive as a game mechanic).

* If there are vendors you do a lot of trading with (particularly if you have a low mercantile skill, so that the vendors are getting 'great deals'), the vendor should, over time, get richer, and so have more money available to buy stuff from you. Conversely, if you have a very high mercantile, perhaps the vendor gets poorer over time because you are taking advantage of him/her.

* There should be some vendors (other than Mudcrab and Creeper) who are rich. It would seem like there would be at least a couple *very* rich merchants in places like Vivec city, Sadrith Mora, Ebonheart, and Mournhold. I always thought it was stupid that the only way you could find a rich merchant who could afford to buy high-end stuff in Morrowind is to go to merchants who *don't even have mercantile*, so that Mercantile, basically, doesn't matter in Morrowind because the best merchants give you full price all the time. Mudcrab should probably be removed from the game, and Creeper should have his 'starting' gold reduced to like 1500 maybe. (The only reason I *use* Mudcrab at all is because there isn't a single rich merchant in the game). There should seriously be a *human* merchant or two who start with 10k or 15k gp, and increase as you do business with them).

* High end weapons/armor and enchanted items should probably have their values reduced to something a little more in-line with the price of everything else. Sure, an enchanted Daedric dagger should be worth a lot of money, but something like 15000 for the *very best* items in the game would probably be a more reasonable value (right now, some high-end enchanted weapons and armor can be worth 200 000+). An unechanted Daedric dagger, for example, is worth 10000gp in the original, unmodded game. Seems like it should really be worth more like 1500 or 2000gp.

* Filled high-end soul gems (Grand, Greater) should have their prices reduced (maybe 5000 for a filled Grand, and 2500 for a filled Greater or something like that), but to go along with that, most enchanting vendors should be pretty rich and be able to afford to buy them from you. (Of course, such a mod would need to also modify the enchanting system in the game, since Constant Effect enchantments require a soul gem worth 80000gp or greater, but that seems like you could fix that simply by resetting one constant value in a formula somewhere).

* Enchanted items should have their value increased by enchanting (Yes, I know Morrowind Code Patch actually has that as one of their 'fixes'), but to go along with the general price reduction, you wouldn't get such astronomical prices for adding enchantments to things - maybe 1.5x or 2x the value of the soul gem used to create the enchantment; so, perhaps enchanting something with a Grand Soul Gem worth 5000gp would add 7500 or 10000gp to the price of the item). Of course, this also means that the price you have to pay NPC enchanters to create enchanted items should probably come down too (though it should still be expensive enough to make the enchantment skill 'worthwhile').

* Perhaps over time, the prices of things would fluctuate in response to the changes in supply/demand that the player introduces into the economy. For example, as the player raids Daedric shrines and starts selling off a bunch of ebony and daedric items to merchants, maybe the prices of that type of gear comes down 30%-50% to reflect a sudden influx of a previously extremely rare item (it would still be pretty lucrative for the player, but instead of getting 5000gp for a Daedric dagger, for example, maybe after they've sold 10 or 20 of them, maybe the price drops to like 3000gp - still a pretty nice payday, but reflects the reality that the player is making those items less rare, and the market demand is starting to become 'satisfied').

This effect of the price of things going down might be mostly a local occurance, so that selling a lot of one type of item in one town depresses the price substantially at all the vendors in that town, but go to a different town and the price would still be pretty high. Maybe if you don't sell in a particular town for awhile, the value starts to go up again.

* Maybe as the player starts selling this stuff into the economy, it starts showing up on local guards, governors, nobles, etc - this could introduce a sort of 'levelling' aspect to the NPCs so that, as the player gets more powerful, and selling off equipment, it starts to have an effect on the world. (Guards start out as very hard, of course, for the player character to defeat, but usually seem to become pretty trivial for the player to defeat after a certain point; I find a certain amusing irony to the idea that as you sell off good equipment to get money to improve yourself, that good equipment will end up in the hands of people you *might* end up fighting.
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JERMAINE VIDAURRI
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:46 pm

I suggest seeking Piratelord's economy mod. I know it does several of the changes you listed here and I think it would be a good option.
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mimi_lys
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:33 pm

I am not sure if all the links here are still correct, but this list should
at the very least avail to you what is possible for download (somewhere) :D ...

http://www.mwmythicmods.com/realism.htm#Economy
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Stephanie Kemp
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:45 am

Have you ever visited Mournhold? There are some pretty rich merchants there.
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jessica robson
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:26 pm

Piratelord's is quite good but it doesn't adress all the issues. It's strange that there still aren't any complete overhauls of the morrowind economy. Like the absurd prices. Who could slugg around 50.000 goldpieces?? I've made an atempt to rebalance all the items in the game so the prices goes between 1 for the cheapest and 10.000 for the best items in the game. Though this means that you will need to adjust everything from rewards in all the games dialogues to the musem buyingprices in mournhold. I'm sorry but I've merged most of the updated versions of this into a combined plugin but i do have a few early versions which you could try.

Ohh and the issue with souldgems can be fixed. You need to change the GMST "soulgem mult" and lower the price of the soulgem. The soulgems will be cheaper, but you will not get any absurd 50.000 gp prices.

I set the values to

petty 1
lesser 2
common 3
greater 4
grand 10


then the "fsouldgemmult" to 80.

Remember though that morrowind uses the soulgems value and fsoulgemmult to calculate what souls fit into which soulgem. I recommend http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?id=6083&view=Mods.Detail for an exact formula of how the values are calculated.

You might want to alter the droprates and buying aviability of the souldgems with this change since they will be practically for free.

The resulting values of a grand soulgem with a ascended sleeper is about 4000-5000 gp
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:56 pm

I was looking to change the ridiculous soulgem value calculation in MCP, but there wasn't any real discussion on well-balanced price levels. There was a thread on it a while back if you search this forum. If you can come up with something that is generally acceptable then it will be added in the next MCP.
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Dean Ashcroft
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:43 am

Mournhold merchants have around 10k gold. That's pretty good.

Though I do understand what you mean. I'd like a number of your requests. I do have a lot of mods, but I couldn't go through my whole list. It's bloody huge. Here's my load order, if you can be bothered to look :P

Spoiler
GameFile0=abotWaterLife.esm
GameFile1=Aduls_Master_Mod.esm
GameFile2=Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm
GameFile3=Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm
GameFile4=Better Heads.esm
GameFile5=Bloodmoon.esm
GameFile6=BT_Whitewolf_2_0.esm
GameFile7=MCA.esm
GameFile8=Morrowind.esm
GameFile9=MW_Children_1_0.esm
GameFile10=Rise of House Telvanni.esm
GameFile11=Tribunal.esm
GameFile12=TR_Data.esm
GameFile13=TR_Map1.esm
GameFile14=TR_Map2.esm
GameFile15=abotGuars.esp
GameFile16=abotWaterLifeTRaddon.esp
GameFile17=abotWhereAreAllBirdsGoing.esp
GameFile18=Aduls_Leggings.esp
GameFile19=Aduls_Leggings_Bloodmoon.esp
GameFile20=Aduls_Leggings_Tribunal.esp
GameFile21=Animated Morrowind 1.0.esp
GameFile22=AreaEffectArrows.esp
GameFile23=Armor Effects-LD 2.0-WD.esp
GameFile24=AshlanderTent.esp
GameFile25=Atronach Expansion X.ESP
GameFile26=Balance - Character.esp
GameFile27=Balance - game settings.esp
GameFile28=Balance - items.esp
GameFile29=Balance - Magic Effects.esp
GameFile30=Balance - NPC Spellcasting.esp
GameFile31=Balance - spells.esp
GameFile32=Balmora Riverside Home.ESP
GameFile33=bcsounds.esp
GameFile34=Better Bodies.esp
GameFile35=Better Clothes_v1.1.esp
GameFile36=Big Paulds.ESP
GameFile37=blackjack.esp
GameFile38=blacklight v1.esp
GameFile39=Brittlewind_Fix.esp
GameFile40=BT_Lokken_child1.esp
GameFile41=Building Up Uvirith's Legacy1.01.ESP
GameFile42=CastReduce-v30.esp
GameFile43=Census and Excise Office.esp
GameFile44=Clean backup heads.esp
GameFile45=Clean Bonelord Robe.ESP
GameFile46=Creatures 6th House Patch.esp
GameFile47=Creatures.esp
GameFile48=Cure Blight Gauntlet.ESP
GameFile49=Dahrk Creatures I.ESP
GameFile50=Dark Elf Hair Styles.esp
GameFile51=DM_DB Armor Replacer-ExpRanks.esp
GameFile52=DN_1st_Person_Armor.esp
GameFile53=DN_1st_Person_bodies.esp
GameFile54=Dodge Mod 1.2-WD (Enhanced-LD) (Tribunal).esp
GameFile55=DX_WereCrocs!.esp
GameFile56=Fair Dark Brotherhood.ESP
GameFile57=Farmer Mod v4.3.esp
GameFile58=Fast Eddie Fix v .0001.esp
GameFile59=Find Shelter.esp
GameFile60=Fligg's Slave Mod.esp
GameFile61=Galsiahs Character Development.esp
GameFile62=Gameplay - Dialogue.esp
GameFile63=Gameplay - Faction.esp
GameFile64=GCD Restore Potions Fix.esp
GameFile65=GCD StartScript for Trib or Bloodmoon.esp
GameFile66=HelmExperiment.esp
GameFile67=Hircine Ring Fix.esp
GameFile68=HospitalityPapers.esp
GameFile69=Illuminated Order v1.0 - Bloodmoon Compatibility Extras.esp
GameFile70=Illuminated Order v1.0.esp
GameFile71=Improved Lockpicking.esp
GameFile72=Improved Open Spell Balance-LD.esp
GameFile73=Improved Trap Settings (Tribunal).esp
GameFile74=ImprovedTeleportation2.0.esp
GameFile75=LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20.esp
GameFile76=LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp
GameFile77=LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp
GameFile78=LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_10.esp
GameFile79=LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp
GameFile80=LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp
GameFile81=LGNPC_Khuul_v2_10.esp
GameFile82=LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp
GameFile83=LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp
GameFile84=LGNPC_PaxRedoran_v1_20.esp
GameFile85=LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_22.esp
GameFile86=LGNPC_SecretMasters_MCA5.esp
GameFile87=LGNPC_SecretMasters_v1_30.esp
GameFile88=Lgnpc_SN.esp
GameFile89=LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp
GameFile90=LGNPC_TelMora_v1_20.esp
GameFile91=LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20.esp
GameFile92=LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20_UI.esp
GameFile93=LGNPC_VivecFQ_v2_10.esp
GameFile94=LGNPC_VivecRedoran_v1_50.esp
GameFile95=llm-hard.esp
GameFile96=Lock bash enhanced.esp
GameFile97=MCA - Guards Patch.esp
GameFile98=MCA - NOM Patch.esp
GameFile99=MCA Item Sellers.ESP
GameFile100=MDP - Dagon Fel.ESP
GameFile101=MDP - Ebonheart.ESP
GameFile102=MDP - Khuul.ESP
GameFile103=MDP - Maar Gan.ESP
GameFile104=MDP - Sadrith Mora.ESP
GameFile105=Morag Tong Index.esp
GameFile106=Morrowind Code Patch Showcase.esp
GameFile107=My Passive Creatures Mod.ESP
GameFile108=New Gnaar Mok.ESP
GameFile109=NOM 2.13.esp
GameFile110=NoShieldEffect.esp
GameFile111=NPC LCV Locks.esp
GameFile112=Nymeria's Faster Walk.esp
GameFile113=Nymeria's Monthly Respawn.esp
GameFile114=PlayableChildren2.0.esp
GameFile115=Psy_VGR_Armour.esp
GameFile116=Pursuit Enhanced -Go To Jail Patch.esp
GameFile117=Pursuit Enhanced.esp
GameFile118=Ravenous Hunger - Lite.esp
GameFile119=Redesigned Vivec.esp
GameFile120=RoHT CoM Addon.esp
GameFile121=RoHT Fix.ESP
GameFile122=Scripted_Spells.esp
GameFile123=Serabul - NOM Patch.ESP
GameFile124=Serabul Redesigned Vivec Patch.ESP
GameFile125=Serabul.esp
GameFile126=Siege at Firemoth.esp
GameFile127=Silgrad Tower No Fight.ESP
GameFile128=Silgrad_Tower_internal_build_1-4_3.esp
GameFile129=Sixth House.esp
GameFile130=South Wall.ESP
GameFile131=Stealth Enhancements-LD 1.5b (Tribunal).esp
GameFile132=Taddeus'BalancedArmors(light).esp
GameFile133=TLM - Complete.esp
GameFile134=TS_BetterBooze.esp
GameFile135=UL_chess_addon.esp
GameFile136=UL_RoHT_Compatibility_1.3.esp
GameFile137=UL_TLM_ambiance.esp
GameFile138=Uvirith's Legacy Book Jackets Add-on.esp
GameFile139=Uvirith's Legacy_BETA1.10.esp
GameFile140=VGreetings-Attack.esp
GameFile141=VGreetings-Flee.esp
GameFile142=VGreetings-Hit.esp
GameFile143=VGreetings-Idle.esp
GameFile144=VGreetings-Thief.esp
GameFile145=VGreetings.esp
GameFile146=Vvardenfell Druglord.esp
GameFile147=Weapons of Tamriel v1.2.esp
GameFile148=Westly Presents_Aureals.esp
GameFile149=Westly Presents_Creed of the Assassin.esp
GameFile150=Westly_Presents_BB_Almalexia_Add_on.esp
GameFile151=Wizard Hats 1.0.esp
GameFile152=zooming bows (v2).esp


Very under rated for this kind of thing - Neseccities of Morrowind. It actually is an amazing balancer. Your low level characters may struggle to buy food, and will give you a nice disadvantage for a while. It's also a good combat balancer. Starving to death in Red Mountain, with a full inventory, surrounded by baddies was perhaps the most immersive moment after the first few days. ^_^
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Jack Moves
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:49 pm

I was looking to change the ridiculous soulgem value calculation in MCP, but there wasn't any real discussion on well-balanced price levels. There was a thread on it a while back if you search this forum. If you can come up with something that is generally acceptable then it will be added in the next MCP.


Personally I think that the value of a soul gem after being filled should be based only on the type of soul trapped. So a rat soul would always be worth the same no matter what gem it's in because with no way to empty a soul gem without destroying it any soul gem with a rat in it has equal utility. The one exception would of course be azura's star.
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:17 pm

Personally I think that the value of a soul gem after being filled should be based only on the type of soul trapped. So a rat soul would always be worth the same no matter what gem it's in because with no way to empty a soul gem without destroying it any soul gem with a rat in it has equal utility. The one exception would of course be azura's star.



To do that some one need to rework the whole formula which generates the price. I don't know what kind of work that means.

But the most important aspect is still to get the prices more balanced while retaining the scaling soulvalues of monsters vs the highest possible value that a soulgem can hold. And of course the buying price of the soul gem.

The issue with the soulgems is that bethesda made some very odd decisions when constructing the formulas. Everything is entwined in a way that means that if you want to alter one thing, you have to alter everything else.
I'd still say that we should go for cheap soulgems, alter the droprates and aviability in stores and then set the soulgemmult to around 80.
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louise hamilton
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:52 am

I can change the formula. You all have to decide on some prices, make a price list and get people to agree on it.
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Tania Bunic
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:37 am

I wish there was an easy-to-customize-mod like http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1100653-relz-enhanced-economy/ for Morrowind. Even with all of the existing economy mods the game is ... not balanced at all.
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cosmo valerga
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:36 am

Indeed, Enhanced Economy is great.
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Brooke Turner
 
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Post » Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:55 pm

I don't think a lot of these changes are possible, at least not without some kind of script extender.
They sound good though, on the whole.

Who could slugg around 50.000 goldpieces??

I believe there are some mods that have already thought about this, like mods that add weight to gold and bank mods to hold onto it for you :)
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MarilĂș
 
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