Meh. I've done the same thing in the past.

Sticking by an argument is laudable. It's just that this is almost guaranteed not to happen. I do think there might be a chance of an overhaul to include the actual text and get rid of the wheel. Perhaps as an option. (Although, I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen either.)


I would normally admit that if I just "missed the old way". In this instance, it's just sort of a clunky system. I'm fine with the wheel, actually. Doesn't bug me. I'm fine with the abbreviated text. Loved that in Bioware games.

The problem is that Bethesda's writers were not always that adept at accurately capturing the actual "lines" in a few words. It could be misleading, resulting in a bit of a shock when your character responded completely NOT the way the text indicated. Poor wording.

Another issue, is that the text can be sort of "canned", and it can be quite linear, regardless of the option you choose. If the game is going to give choices -- change the outcome! Otherwise, just skip the dang choice and have the NPC conclude.

How is this "law"? If someone expresses an opinion, it should be expressed in active voice, not passive voice. Obviously, if someone says, "I like this; it's the best," that's their opinion. If someone says, "I hate this; it's the worst," that's also their opinion. Why does "This is my opinion," need to be stated? It's not rude to state was is fact to you. (I like = FACT. I dislike = FACT.) That's...what an opinion is.

People who play the political card by soothing others' sensibilities with passive speech -- "In my opinion, I think this could be the best thing ever; other people may disagree, maybe..." -- usually get nothing done. They spend most of their time swishing back and forth between views, trying to keep everyone happy.

It's an argument. Argue! (And enjoy it! It's fun.)

(Jumping into this conversation, now)


I couldn't vote Yes or No because I honestly am somewhere in between on this issue. There are things I like about the dialogue system, and then there are things I know could be improved. Vagueness over some dialogue choices is irksome, but I don't see it occurring as much as people make it sound it does. What I wish is that there could be more in-depth conversations with our companions after romancing them, at the very least. But it's not much of a big deal to me. I did enjoy the dialogue wheel in ME2 (the only ME game I've played), as at least with that the "nice" choices were blue, "mean" or "selfish" choices were red, and neutral or info-gathering choices were gray. Only once I have hit a vague choice in dialogue that I thought meant something else (was romancing a character, hit the choice "Love?" thinking it was going to make Shepherd talk about love, but instead he says it's not about love but simple sixual attraction...). Then I've played plenty of RPGs where the PC was voiceless and you were given statements to choose from, and I'm fine with those as well.

I would like it updated also,but not the same way as others had stated. I don't mind the wheel,just add more role playing and choice to it. I don't want to see and hear the whole dialogue text.

Its just that in this particular case I find the entire context of the thing very demanding, a complete overhaul of the game in its current form. I really don't like the new dialogue system, and I want it to be a Fallout 4 thing only. But to want what he wants, and not buy the game until its there? That just seems so absurd to me, although at least he didn't outright buy the game knowing he would hate it. I'm okay with people expressing their dislike of the new system, I really don't like it either, but it needs to be a dislike, not a outright hate, which is something that happens far too often in gaming community and often dilutes any legitimate complaints with the standard hate for new things that every game accumulates.

That's you're opinion. Mine, too, actually. But, as I said to his comment, I've taken the same sort of stand on other things in the past. And I've lost every single time. I'll make the stand in the future. And I'll lose again. I don't do it to "win" or "get my way". I do it to send the message.

It's easy to say, "That's silly," if we don't feel so strongly about the issue because...we don't feel that strongly about the issue. I support steadfastness, even in a losing battle. The only thing I address during an argument is if someone's language becomes abrasive or insulting to others' points of view.

I agree, and had a similar sort of suggestion before. I would have chosen to do away with "words" altogether. The 4 options during combat could have simply been small animated icons of Fallout Boy reacting to what was just said. You could have him nodding and smiling for one option, shaking his head and looking disgusted for another, pointing to money in his hand, making sarcastic eyebrows, etc. The options could be switched up based on the situation. At least that would make the conversation options crystal clear to the player.

Your example about "Love?" (despite the ME2 reference) is EXACTLY the type of problem Bethesda is facing. Mistakes such as this are quite amateurish, actually. The regularity with which they occur shows that either the writers simply didn't have the skill / experience to recognize it, or they simply didn't spend much time on it. Given the wide disparity of writing ability exhibited from Oblivion onward, I would say it's always been a bit of both.

I will support your statement that it's not that bad. I agree. Once I started reading the dialogue choices like I was revising the writing, I had far less trouble with it. I could usually figure out "what they meant to mean".

Fixing so game show full dialogue not just keywords is trivial

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?

Changing the dialogue system to allow more than 4 options is very hard as it require major changes in dialogues and quests.

Only effect might be that you could do stuff like having preston aks you instead of assign you

Always and only 4 option does not work well with dynamic quests or simply settings where on NPC is involved in multiple quests.

Since the four options do not work well with dynamic quests or other settings where NPC's are involved in multiple quests. Maybe it's another reason to redo the dialogue system?

Once Bethesda Game Studios releases the Creation Kit releases I'd like to see PC gamers who are modders take on writing new quests and see what they come up with.

If I purchased Fallout 4 I would try it myself.

The Full Dialogue Interface mod is a very good step forward, but it still shows the limitations of the dialogues.

Text lines were better. Plus I miss perks being able to influence dialogue beyond Lady Killer/Black widow ones.

You know what I have yet to see? A single post that says: "Wow! The new dialogue system is so awesome...!"

I doubt we'll see it reappear in future titles.

Most of the time you understand that you are going to say, as in most of the time. Sometimes its get more problematic as then having pretty critical dialogues and have to guess and this affects gameplay.

Generally its just an idiot design, you tend to know that you will say before saying it and don't have to guess, sacrasm for one was never used before FDI.

And yes most characters in FO3 or Skyrim had 4 or less options. The important characters and the ones you remember had more, many unimportant one had plenty of dialogue too if they had information, yes it was mostly answers to questions but it was useful information about them and the setting. Go back and play FO3 or Skyrim and you notice the difference.

Perhaps more important the dialogue menu in FO3 and Skyrim is dynamic, they can add and remove topics dependent on quest stages in multiple quests or use other requirements like level or items.

Fallout 4 dialogues are static you can only get one page with 4 options notice how you always deliver quest automatically then activating an npc?

And I bought FO4 pre release and it was weeks before FDI was released, most learned well how the dialogue system worked.

And no they will not change it as its an nightmare process, adding FDI as stock however i doable, it would be interesting to see how many downloads it get on consoles

Even with its shortcomings, I still feel like I have enough of an option in what I have to say to NPCs and such, maybe moreso than in Skyrim. During plot-related quests or other important situations, I find myself carefully weighing the four options I have, especially ones where you have speech checks associated with two or more options (take "Blind Betrayal" for example: When you speak to Maxson to try to persuade him to do otherwise, you can tailor the argument you wish to make). But in terms of the confusing, vague, options, maybe using more than one word would help clarify, so you get a better sense of what attitude your character is bringing in.

I voted yes for one reason i miss the perk dialogue options. i have no problem with Fallout 4's dialogue but there are times when i wanted to ask more questions but couldn't, so the dialogue at times felt very limited to me. many people say its Mass effects system i disagree that system gave you the option to ask questions before moving on to the story at hand Fallout 4 for the most part doesn't you say your line or ask your one question & moving on to the next so you miss importent info either about the character or what happened between Fallout 3 & Fallout 4 & the lack of Perk dialogue options makes perks like lady killer, black widow & idiot savant kind of pointless.

Yes! I installed that mod before even creating my character. Only mod so far, actually.

This is the larger argument, and I'd vouch to say Beth has gotten the message. Honestly, I'm not terribly torn up, and I really like RPG dialogue that does not let you "go back". Being able to freely start and restart conversations with NPCs until you've squeezed every last drop of information out of them is terribly unnatural. I like choosing and having to live with the results, just like in life. To that end, a much more evolved dialogue system taking Speech and player affiliations into account would be great!

There is truth in that but for me not being able to question a faction about its history makes it feel like your just following them blindly. ....but personally that's just me nitpicking at this point.

Fair enough. That would probably bug me as well. Although, that's usually one of the first things I ask.