Hello everyone, hopefully your mornings/afternoons/evenings are going well today.*smiles*

I have a few questions about the Imperials/Cyrods - all three groups specifically, the Colovians, the Nibenese, and the Heartlanders. Hopefully I can get some insight regarding the Imperial people of Cyrodiil - I'll be looking forward to reading your responses and learning more about the Cyrods.

First, I figured I'd get this out of the way - I know about the Colovians and their more Nordic ancestry and their customs, as well as about the Nibenese and their more Akaviri and Elven ancestry, the mercantile and magocratic customs, etc. But I don't know too much about Heartlanders - what exactly is a Heartlander, aside from (correct me if I'm wrong in any way) an Imperial who was born and raised in the Heartlands? Is there culture a combination of Nibenese and Colovian cultures? Do they have a blend of Nibenese and Colovian ancestry? What sets the apart from Colovians and Nibenese?

My second question is this - is there any physical difference between a Colovian and a Nibenese Imperial? And if so, would Heartlanders have a blend of Colovian and Nibenese traits at all? I heard someone that the Colovians, due to having more Nordic customs and ancestry, are more likely to be fair of skin and/or hair (having a resemblance to Nords in fact) while Nibenese would have tanned, olive, or swarthy skin tones and darker hair - although I personally believe this to be nonsense. Abnur Tharn said he and all other members of the Tharn Family are pure Nibenese, yet he's of a very fair, close to pale complexion - which makes me question the validity of the latter statement yet I know that individual exceptions are always present.

I ask this because I'm aware of the cultural difference of the Colovians and Nibenese, yet I've never really understood if the Colovians, Nibenese, and even the Heartlanders had any physical differences between them in Cyrodiil.

Third question is sort of related to question two, and, fair warning, might seem pointless to ask, but I wish to be certain - can Imperials have pale to fair skin tones like a Breton or a Nord in Cyrodiil? I know that the Imperials are typically listed as being able to have "fair to swarthy skin, compared to the typically fairer complexions of the Bretons and Nords", yet does this rule out having those fairer/pale skin tones? I know the Imperials are a diverse people, not just in terms of their culture in their province and the ancestry of all three groups of Cyrods as a whole, but also biologically, but are pale Imperials possible in province like Cyrodiil - especially for a Nibenese or Heartlander?

Question four is my final question and is a bit different. The Nords have the Thu'um, the Redguard possess the Shehai and Sword-Singers, the Dunmer have/had Dust Magic as well as ancestral spirit magic, the Thalmor in the Fourth Era allegedly rediscovered "Dawn Magic", and the Psijics practiced the Old Ways. Is there any record of a Cyrodiilic/Imperial/Cyrod exclusive form of magic?

Anyways, thank you for your time everyone - and again, I look forward to learning from you guys.*Smiles*

The Nibenese are the "Hearthlanders", so there are only 2 main groups of Cyrodiils, at least as long as we ignore Oblivion which does away with the differences in culture between them.

For the sake of gameplay, neither the Colovian/NIbenese nor the Breton/Reachman split are addressed, but the latter is quite explicitly for the sake of gameplay as we know that the Reachmen have a lot of mixed blood between elves and humans of all stripes. The Imperials being a single race is likely due to 1) easier in gameplay(and Bethesda doesn't exactly go out of their way to acknowledge the Colovian/Nibenese split), and 2) the physical differences might not be enough to warrant separate races for them.

The Imperials used to be exclusively white in Morrowind, but now in Skyrim they are allowed to have darker complexions. We also see a range of skin-colors for the Imperials on the NPCs in Skyrim. As far as I am concerned, all skin colors Skyrim allow for are canon. Where they are concentrated is hard to say. It doesn't help that virtually all Imperials in Oblivion are also white.

And, lastly, I don't know of any magic unique to the Imperials.

I've actually never heard of Heartlanders being spoken of as their own distinct group. As you say, I'd simply classify them as Imperials born in the Heartlands (aka the Imperial City and its surroundings). The Heartlands are a Nibenean region, not a Colovian one, but since the Imperial City is so cosmopolitan I suspect their culture is influenced by many from around the Empire.

No, there are no significant differences in appearance between Colovians and the Nibenese. The distinction is by and large a cultural one.

Yes, of course. While Cyrodiils as a whole tend to be "swarthier" than their northern cousins, their skin tones can range from quite pale to very dark. Remember, humans can not only reproduce with each other but also with mer as well. An Imperial with a Redguard or Dunmer father might have very dark skin, while an Imperial with a Nord or Breton father might have very fair skin. This is as true in Nibenay as it is anywhere else. The Empire has brought great wealth and diversity to Cyrodiil. Maybe if you traveled back to the 1st Era you might find a more monolithic phenotype. Not so much anymore though.

Interesting question. I suppose we could say the Imperials have the gift of the gab. A silver tongue, if you will, as their magical specialty. In a way you can see this as a "civilized" Thu'um. The "Voice of the Emperor" power that all Imperials have is representative of this, I think. Otherwise.... no, there isn't anything that in particular stands out as uniquely Imperial magic. They mostly use what the Redguards identify as "eastern magic," otherwise known as elven magic. The Thu'um and the Shehai aren't so much unique magical arts as they are magic with purely human origins. The Imperials - and Bretons, for that matter - were heavily influenced by merish culture and adopted their magical practices. And, by doing so, the Imperials helped the way of doing elven magic to become the preeminent magical practice, while more the more traditional schools of Thu'um and Shehai died out. There is a certain power subtly has over raw, unrestrained strength.

I assume that the mages of Cyrodiil generally joined the Mages Guild. In this case, any traditional magics that only they knew could in theory be studied within the Guild in any province. By the 4th Era, this type of cosmopolitan, if basically High Elven magic, is probably familiar to most mages in Tamriel, even if some of it has become obcure. As I see it, the only reason that might not happen is if the Guild decided to ban a type of magic (e.g. Reach magic was banned within the guild in the late Secind Era at least).

Huh... The more you know.

I'm not sure what some of the people who said Heartlanders were a third group of Imperials were thinking when they said that - although maybe I misinterpreted what they meant and they were referring to them as Nibenese afterall. And yes, I think we all agree that Oblivion did little to no justice in terms of representing the Colovians and Nibenese.

I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised at the answers you both provided regarding Imperial skin tones - although looking back at a number of Imperial NPCs in Oblivion, Tdroid, although there are pale and fair Imperials, a large number of them appear to around olive-skinned and dark tan. It's also rather pleasing to hear that no physical differences exist between Nibenese and Colovians - again, I suspected as much considering Abnur Tharn, Clivia Tharn, and Magna Tharn at least being pale and fair skinned, with the Tharns being a Nibenese family.

As for the "Voice of the Emperor" possibly being the unique magical talent of the Imperials... that's an interesting way to look it things, Fjore! Also, forgive me for believing the Thu'um and Shehai were unique abilities - I suppose I was under the impression that they were mainly because few, if any, outside of the Nords and Redguards, respectively, have been known to wield those forms of magic. Or at least regarding the Shehai to my knowledge.

Cyrodiil has the Cult of the Ancestor Moth.

I almost forgot to mention that in my last post! *chuckles* I was thinking of the Ancestor Moth Cult and how they're capable of reading the Elder Scrolls, yet for some reason I forgot about them.

I didn't say there aren't any, just like I wouldn't say there aren't differences between Bretons and Reachmen just because they use the same in-game race. But there might not be enough difference to warrant a separate in-game representation. I would be surprised if there aren't differences given that the Colovians have been somewhat isolated from the Nibenese for quite a bit of their history.

One of the Tharns married the first Longhouse Emperor and Clivia married the last. Other Nibenese people intermarried with the Akaviri. So the Nibenese upper classes at least probably have diverse appearances. The Tharns could well have Colovian, Nordic, Reach and Breton blood.

Oh god how I hate that ESO [censored] with the Tharn family ,Jagar Tharn did not have any known familiy....nobody even knew were he was from.And he was certainly not a member of a well known family of traitors.

The Tharns are diverse when it comes to treason. Abnur, for example, is more or less a devout patriot of the Empire, hence his turning on Mannimarco. His children, not so much. And Abnur makes a comment that his family will lose everything because of him betraying Mannimarco, since he effective ran the Empire at that point.

It wouldn't surprise me that this is the reason a good chunk of the Tharns' history was destroyed (aside from the whole "Dark Ages of Tamriel" thing). It could potentially flesh out Jagar Tharn's motivations in Arena. But that's just my theory.

Not theory, Abnur himself says that "the name Tharn is likely being struck from every document in the Imperial archives" after he betrays Mannimarco.

I thought so. Been a while since I've done the MQ. Though the "theory" part referred to Jagar Tharn's motivations for usurping the throne. Arena/Daggerfall's lore needs some love. The fixing kind.