Is Fcom Convergence too easy?

Post » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:35 pm

Hello fellow Elder Scrollers. I’ve recently revisited Oblivion looking for a hardcoe difficulty experience. After installing the full Fcom package and investing many hours into the game I’ve found that the whole Fcom experience is far too easy for my liking.



A summary of the important mods and my settings:




Spoiler

Fcom

Quest Award Leveller – Since the difficulty is somewhat static, you shouldn’t be punished for managing to do quests earlier on.

Oblivion XP – who wants to become the greatest warrior in Tamriel by sneaking into a wall? One of the slower levelling equations was set. Attribute points per level reduced to 10. Skill points per level reduced to 24. Skills allowed to train per level reduced to 2. Experience from all miscellaneous activities reduced to 0.

Difficulty slider – all the way to the right




Even with all these settings I’ve found the difficulty too easy by discovering the following techniques:




Spoiler

1) My first character was a summoner type mage with Conjuration as the main skill. The problem with Conjuration is that summons are too powerful. Because their damage is not affected by the difficulty slider they deal considerable amounts of damage to enemies. Even more so when you get to summon the badass daedra and other creatures at 100. Summon – sit back and watch.


2) My second character was an Altmer mage with destruction and alchemy as the two main skills backed by the Atronach birthsign. Destruction is OP – far more than conjuration. With spell stacking most enemies fall. It doesn’t matter how tough your foe is. Spell stackan element and then cast a spell of that element. Moreover, OOO makes casting AOE spells cheaper. Although it costs a bit more mana, it’s still very easy to AOE spell stack on groups of daedra, goblins and bandits. After AOE spell stacking you hit with element in a small AOE to send groups of enemies to their doom. While there are some enemies with high spell absorption and resist magic that will give you trouble it’s nothing a poison can’t handle.


3) Having discovered that poisons are also not affected by the difficulty slider I restarted with an Argonian stealthy archer. With Alchemy as one of my major skills I was hoping to play a Witchunter/Agent class. Poisons turned out to be the most OP damaging mechanism. I was able to take out the Orge near the Winged bow and level 1 with 15 damage health poisons. The game doesn’t award you the experience from killing with poisons on many occasions so it becomes annoying to sneak in a last hit with a bow or spell. But anything will die to poisons – they do more damage than any spell will. Poisons are also subject to weakness to poison/weakness to magic spell stacking and the most potent poisons with damage health/fire/shock will bring down any enemy in the game.




OOO also claims to remove many of the exploitable effects from Vanilla – but this is not the case (I did not use any of these). Some of the exploitable effects that still remain include the following:




Spoiler

1) Drain speed – Adding drain speed 100 points for 1 second to any weapon stops enemies from engaging in combat completely. Slash/bash away with impunity while your enemy sheathes/unsheathes their weapon.

2) Resist magic – This has not been disabled at the enchanting alter making it easy to create full 100% resist magic gear.

3) Chameleon – Probably the most broken effect has not been disabled at the enchanting alter. Grand soul gems grant 25% chameleon each. Very easy to reach 100%. Moreover, at 100 illusion a spell exists that gives u 75% chameleon alone. It remains quite easy to achieve 100% chameleon.

4) Calm – This effect makes a task like spell stacking simple. Add a 1 or 2 second calm to your spell stacking spells and enemies will remain stationary waiting for you zap them into oblivion.




I was looking for a hardcoe difficulty challenge but was left disappointed. I was wondering if anyone else out there has had similar experiences with the whole Fcom package.


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Portions
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:28 pm

mod list. Fcom crushes you. Unless you abuse oblivion xp and you get so many xp at game's beginning that you reach level 20 and oh well, things are not as hard as they could the whole time.

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Campbell
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:14 am

I find FCOM very challenging at the beginning. Less so once you are very high level.



But how did you get conjuring to 100? oblivion XP is configurable. So, while it is technically possible to spend all your points on one skill and level it to 100 very quickly, there is also a setting to limit how many skill points you put into any one skill at level up. I use that setting to limit growth also.



If you are abusing training and ObXP's settings in order to level certain powerful skills to 100very early in the game, then it is you creating the overpower problem, no FCOM.

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James Shaw
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:33 am

Active Mod Files:


Spoiler

00 Oblivion.esm
01 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm [Version 5.0]
02 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm [Version 5.0]
03 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.35Beta]
04 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.8b1]
05 FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
06 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.5.2]
07 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
08 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
09 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.5.6]
0A Francesco's Creatures and Items Resources.esp [Version 5.0]
0B Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp [Version 5.0]
0C Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp [Version 5.0]
0D Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp [Version 5.0]
0E Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp [Version 5.0]
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
0F FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
10 Natural_Weather_HDR_by_Max_Tael.esp
11 Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
12 Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp
13 ImprovedSigns.esp
14 DLCHorseArmor.esp
15 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8]
16 DLCOrrery.esp
17 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.6]
18 DLCVileLair.esp
19 DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.10]
** Lair_MOBS.esp [Version 2.0]
** VileLair_MOBS.esp [Version 2.0]
1A DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
1B DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.7]
** Mehrunes_MOBS.esp [Version 2.0]
1C DLCSpellTomes.esp
++ DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
1D DLCThievesDen.esp
1E DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.13]
1F DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.13]
** ThievesDen_MOBS.esp [Version 2.0]
20 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
21 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
22 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp [Version 1.09]
23 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
24 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.35Beta]
** OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 2.0]
25 Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.8b1]
26 FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb8b1]
++ FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp [Version 0.9.9beta2]
27 FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8]
28 Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp [Version 3.8b1]
29 Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp [Version 3.8b1]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.8b1]
2A Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.7b7]
2B Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp [Version 3.8b1]
2C Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.8b1]
** FCOM_Archery.esp [Version 1.0]
++ FCOM_ArcheryRealSwords.esp [Version 1]
2D Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creatures Expansion.esp [Version 3.8b1]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - RadiantAITweaks.esp
2E Mart's Monster Mod - Mummies.esp
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.8b1]
2F DLCFrostcrag.esp
30 DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
31 Knights.esp
32 Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.1.6]
33 Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp [Version 3.8b1]
++ FCOM_Knights.esp [Version 0.9.9MB8b1]
34 Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
35 Auto Update Leveled Items And Spells.esp [Version 1.2.5]
36 Oblivion XP.esp
37 Bashed Patch, 0.esp





If you go with altmer or breton you begin the game with 40 in conjuration (35 if you are altmer). You train conjuration to 49 at level 2 and either using a skill book or trainer to bypass the level restrictions. It sounds like I am the cause of the overpowering problem. Still so, the game becomes much easier at level 5 if you respect the rules using the skills I have mentioned, especially destruction. 50 points is just what you need to access weakness to magic and then - everything dies to spell stacking.



Alchemy is still insanely powerful - with the potential of taking out any creature or npc. Without any abuse I took out a level 25 orge at level 1 with a 15 damage health poisons.

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John N
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:05 am

Huh. I admit I have never played a mage using FCOM, so I did not realize how easy it was to raise skill levels there. But, I have always played a sneaky archer who does use poisons, and I have never been able to take on a level 25 ogre when I was level 1. Tell me how did you get 15 shots in before he closed on you?

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Lindsay Dunn
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:15 am

A lot of the issues you mention are well known exploits but I have not heard of many mods that prevent them. I've always used self restraint to prevent over use of many of these cause yeah, a 100% chameleon suit is pretty easy to make and destroys the fun of the game.


There are newer options than FCOM. You may want to look at Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul instead. It is highly configurable in its ini. You can use Maskars with Obscuros and maybe with a full FCOM install as well, if your PC will handle it. You might be able to stop some of the exploits with Maskars various ini tweaks, or at the very least make the game harder.


There is also Realistic Leveling, also highly configurable in its ini, which may make it more difficult to max a single skill than xp, particularly if you slow down the leveling of that skill in the ini. You might add Fundament for this purpose as well.


For magic, I'd suggest taking a look at Supreme Magicka, which also has an extensive ini and see if you can use the ini to stop some of the issues you mention. Or maybe LAME or Kobals magic mod (can't remember the name).


Don't know of a mod that nerfs poisons.
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Scarlet Devil
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:40 pm


As a male Argonian you begin with 50 Speed and a +10 bonus to athletics which helps your running speed. Sneak attack from far on the first attack then back away while firing poisoned arrows. Ogres are not quick but one will eventually catch you. Before it gets too close turn and run and jump onto any nearby rock/elevated surface. This buys you time as the ogre moves around the rocks/rubble to get to you. Rinse and repeat. The particular ogre I kill was at the Winged bow location near one of the daedric shrines. You'll see the terrain favors you in this mountainous region.





The Fcom package adds alot to the Vanilla game. I think its almost perfect but these exploits need to be removed. If i had the knowledge I would make the changes myself to the mod by doing the following:




Spoiler


1) Removing Chameleon from the game. Alternatively, cap all gear and spells to X% chameleon and remove invisibility. No invisibility means no easy escape in fights, no skipping of mobs to get to the boss and no skipping of mobs to steal the good loot located far down in the depths of the deepest dungeons.


2) Remove drain speed from the game.


3) Remove calm effects from the game.


3) Move weakness to magicka as a Master destruction skill. Alternatively remove it from the game entirely to prevent stacking.


4) Divide all sources of non-player damage by 6 to correspond with the difficulty slider. In other words reduce the damage of all summons by 6 and reduce the damage done by poisons by 6.


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Far'ed K.G.h.m
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:03 am

Regarding number 4, Maskars overhaul allows you to adjust different types of damage in its ini. It is not keyed specifically to summons, but you could, for instance, increase or decrease all NPC weapon damage and all NPC spell damage. You can independently adjust PC weapon and spell damage. You might be able to find some settings that were suitable. Maskars should be compatible with FCOM, as long as your PC can handle the added strain.



Regarding Chameleon, either Supreme Magicka or Maskars allows you to set a cap on how much chameleon you can get. I think I capped mine at 80%, which stops it from being game breaking, although its still pretty OP when combined with sneak. You might be able to lower the cap down to a percentage that would be acceptable.



Regarding Weakness to magic, it seems like you could just disable spell making for it, since the vanilla spells are low magnitude and long duration, making stacking difficult. That should be pretty easy to do in xEdit. Maybe do the same thing for calm. Removing either completely from the game would be pretty involved, especially since they come as powers/weaknesses to certain vanilla races and birthsigns/standing stones. But disabling them from spell making would not be difficult.

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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:34 pm

Look for author Zamir on tesnexus (my nickname there) These mods should solve many of your issues - not all of them entirely I suppose, but to a great degree. For summons, I would use Companion Compatibility. It will make enemies target you over your summons most of the time. SDR is good against overpowered stealth. Though the bugfixed version is not yet out.

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Killah Bee
 
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Post » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:32 am

I would like to see a balancing and difficulty focused overhaul with minimal new content. I stopped using FCOM a while ago because it became more of a pain than it was worth in my eyes: mainly for the space it took in a load order that was already packed. I also became more interested in quality control, lore, and a more vanilla experience.
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Imy Davies
 
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