Returning player here. I'm currently starting fresh and look to STEP project because I've heard good things about them.


Since STEP recommends using Mod Organizer, I rolled with it. I'm currently at "clean your masters" phase and I'm incredibly confused at this step:




And sure enough, it disappeared. The guide does say that I could create a mod in MO that will overwrite the update.esm (or so it says) but I'm feeling mighty uncomfortable. That's not how it worked back when I manually use TES5EDIT without passing Mod Organizer, the cleaned master simply sits there chilling without any workaround. What about the DLC masters? How do I clean them? LOOT asked me to clean them but the STEP guide provides no information about the DLC masters.


STEP warns that TES5EDIT will be unable to see anything if I don't run it from MO. It feels wrong, as if my entire Skyrim is in MO's iron grip. I use my own mods and they need manual loose files overwrite, how do I do that with MO?

Someone else will probably answer to the other technical questions better, but here's about your own loose files.

- Just make sure that the files are arranged as they are usually arranged in Skyrim's data folder (meshes, textures, etc) and pack them with e.g. 7z.

- Add this package into the MO's downloads (copy it to the directory you have chosen in MO's setting or open the Downloads tab in MO and drag and drop the package there).

- Double click the file in the Download tab and click OK. NOTE: If the files are in sub-folders it will be necessary to select the correct data folder (MO asks this automatically)

- The mod is now installed and is located at the bottom of the left list. Activate it and move it to desired position (e.g. after the mod it modifies).

You can also afterwards manually adjust the installed files. Just right click it's name in the left window and select "Open in explorer".

EDIT: About loose files and BSAs. In the right panel of MO there's a tab named Archives. Open it and check that the "Have MO manage archives" is activated. Hover the mouse over the "read more" for more information.

What if I just put loose files on the game data folder like normal? Will the game read them? I experiment and mix n match plenty of stuff, loose files was amazingly useful, although I can understand the benefits in keeping them neatly in one archive

The whole purpose of Mod Organizer (to keep a pristine data folder) is defeated if you start installing loose files there. I don't know if it will "work" or not, but if you prefer to be able to install directly to the data folder and don't want to be held in an "iron grip" by your mod manager, I have to ask why not just use Wrye Bash?

Because I was following the STEP guide. I understand that plenty of progress have been made in Skyrim modding front while I wasn't active, and I thought this Mod Organizer thing would work better for me in the long run if I can understand how to use it, considering the plethora of features it has that are clearly made to make modding Skyrim easier, such as conveniently launching LOOT and TES5EDIT, NMM didn't have that (whatever version I last used). There was a time when I had to use the then-buggy TESVGECKO to get something done, then Wrye Bash was ported to Skyrim and things were infinitely easier, I assumed that MO is a natural progression.


I didn't know MO would go so far as using a virtual file system. I'm basically scared because I couldn't see what it's doing and its results, and all the tools aside from TES5EDIT are new to me. For example, I've never seen the Update.esm disappear, and even after I did the workaround as explained, LOOT doesn't seem to pick it up. I don't know if this new LOOT simply displays that the Update.esm is dirty no matter its condition or whether it actually reads the plugin to see whether it's dirty or not, but right now it says Update.esm is dirty despite the fact that I have indeed cleaned it. LOOT also doesn't pick up USLEEP for some reason although it's already installed with MO, and my mind is worried that if such a high profile mod is not recognized, what will it do to my personal plugins?

I don't have these problems with MO, LOOT, update.esm and USLEEP. Something is now not working as intended. With MO it's important that all these programs (LOOT, TES5Edit) are launched via Mod Organizer. See http://wiki.step-project.com/LOOT and http://wiki.step-project.com/TES5Edit.

Are you using the LOOT included in the MO (the Sort button) or a separately installed LOOT that is launched via MO? I use a separate LOOT installation and when I launch it via MO it shows both update.esm and Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp on the list. And to clean the update.esm just launching the TES5Edit via MO, doing the three steps, closing the TES5Edit and pressing OK to save the modified esm has always worked for me.

Do not be afraid of MO using some kind of virtual directory structure. It has always been this way and simply still is. I am using MO continuously since ever modding Skyrim, and I also had some breaks in between like you, but the way MO works never really changed.

It is absolutely mandatory that you always launch those tools like Loot, Tes5Edit, Wrye Bash from inside MO because otherwise its "virtual directory magic" is not applied and e.g. in Tes5Edit you will not see your list of plug-ins.

I would confirm that what Julle64 said is all entirely correct.

Just on Update.esm, this physically resides in the Skyrim/Data folder (where it got installed during the Steam install) and in MO in the right panel I see it grayed out. But when you start Tes5Edit from inside MO, you can clean it normally, as Julle said.

Gopher also made some excellent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ZQpzf_iAE&list=PLE7DlYarj-DcLS9LyjEqOJwFUQIIQewcK for MO. They may be useful.

You can see what MO is doing. Just install the 32-bit Version of FreeCommander XE (Google it) the normal way ( i mean to c:\Program Files (x86)\) and launch FreeCommander XE through MO like you would launch TES5Edit. You then can see how your setup looks like within MO. This was covered in another S.T.E.P. pack setup, i think it was for Fallout 3. If you launch FreeCommander XE through MO and then navigate to your Skyrim Data folder you will see exactly how your setup looks like. But just look,, dont change anything from here.

You can use loose files with MO and they'll work fine in the sense that both the game and MO will load the files into your game. The problem lies when you have unmanaged files in MO that the program can't index or control - using loose files means you lose out on one of the primary advantages of MO - easy conflict detection. If you don't load a mod as a managed mod in MO, it won't detect any conflicts in a mod for files, meaning you won't be able to simply choose winnners/losers of the mod fight by reordering mods as some mods won't be managed. So it can certainly be done but it kind of defeats the purpose if you choose to still use loose files. Let MO manage your files by installing them from a 7z or zip file and they'll work as they always have but with the added benefit of conflict detection so you'll know if you have mod override issues.

You said in your opening post "as if my entire Skyrim is in MO's iron grip" - that's kind of the point to using MO. It's an entire mod system for dealing with modding the game, everything runs thru MO once you commit to using it. Or everything should run through MO in an optimal setup, your choice of course if you want to use it fully. For your LOOT issues, install LOOT into MO as a managed helper program that you can start as needed. If configured correctly, it will load up your full load order into LOOT from the virtual file system. If mods ever go "missing", always check the override folder in MO, any changes to mods from editing/cleaning will usually show up there.

Mod Organizer is really a fantastic tool.

Just take the time to understand how it works.

It makes installing and managing mods a breeze.

Is also very easy to keep multiple profiles.

Regarding the "update.esm" issue my advice is to make a folder like "TES5Edit Vanilla Cleaned" on the M.O. mods folder.

Copy Update.esm, Dawnguard.esm, Dragonborn.esm, HearthFires.esm to this folder.

Them clean those files instead of the originals in the Skyrim data folder.

This way you keep the original files in the game folder and if something goes wrong you always have the originals.

Also if steam re-download the game it does not mess up with your M.O. profile.

I did. I installed a separate LOOT as instructed by STEP guide, and MO picked it up immediately (as in, I don't need to manually add it in the list of executables), the LOOT entry is grayed out unlike TES5EDIT which I added manually and is bright black.


However, both of them don't pick up USLEEP. I'm not sure where I did wrong, I launched them directly from MO. I didn't run MO with admin rights if that matters.


I tried to clean the masters one more time with TES5EDIT (still launched from MO) and this time they don't disappear, LOOT also says that they're clean, so there's an improvement, although the main issue that it doesn't pick up USLEEP persists

The loose files that I use range from armor replacers (simple meshes) and behavior file replacers (.hkx files). I used PCEA and it involves tricking the game using a modified .hkx file that is renamed to .hkt which means it doesn't overwrite anything, that's where my worry is.


Ultimately, my primary reason to use loose files is that I replace the entire lineup of the game's armors and I do mashups. This means there will be a lot of directories involved and plenty of testing to see if the mashup works. I'd like to use loose files and not extract - add - archive - re-add which adds unnecessary complexity.


EDIT: I don't mean to use the loose files forever, once I achieved the results I like, I'd want to archive them and use them with MO

loose files have nothing to do with unmanaged mods in MO, unless you're using the literal definition, when in the modding community loose files means files not packaged in a bsa

Not sure if I understood this correctly, but you can use and manage them with MO even now if you want to do something to them manually. The installed packages (the left window ones) are located in your MO installation folder under the mods folder. Just go to the folder of the mod you want to chance and every modification you do there is used by MO automatically. No need to reinstall anything through MO. And this way you can also easily see in MO if some other mod is overwriting those files.

EDIT: A word of warning. The modifications done to the files located in the mods folder are not moved into the packed file. If you reinstall the package in the MO at this point you will lose all the modifications done in the mods folder. This because MO uses two different folders for mods - one where the original packed files are (the downloads folder) and one for the installed mods (the mods folder).

Hmmm, well I guess I'll just need to learn MO more.


Speaking of which, my LOOT still doesn't pick up USLEEP. Any ideas on that?

When you right click the USLEEP mod in MO (the left window) and select "Open in explorer" you should see 4 USLEEP files and a file called meta.ini (the docs folder isn't important). If not just reinstall USLEEP. If those files are present the only other reason that comes to my mind now is that you have a filter on in LOOT.

Huh...


I just ran LOOT and it picked up both USLEEP and High res patch. IDK what I did, although I did restart my PC at some point today, maybe that's all it needed to work.


I'll dig around for this MO, I hope it'll help me get a better modding experience

Possible a filter was auto set by running LOOT so your mod view was restricted and restarting your PC reset MO to default views. I've had that happen a few times and if you have a small mod list you may not notice it right off. Large mod lists tend to make it obvious if your view was reset by a filter as if you have 200 mods installed but are only seeing 10, yeah it stands out. Filters are found in the lower left of the main window, open them up and click in an empty spot in the filter window to reset them to default.