Saying the Warwick "purge all evidence" entry is conclusive evidence of the Institute's intentions to silence the farm settlers is like saying Teagan's "by whatever means necessary" means that the BoS will always take supplies by force. If we like/hate a faction, we will always take one possibly ambiguous event and use it as conclusive proof. I guess the only thing we can all be sure of is - all of us are biased in our own ways.

Not really. The Brotherhood seeks to kill EVERYTHING that's a mutant. It doesn't matter if you're hostile, if you're a mutie, you're dying. It doesn't matter if the mutant is hostile, or has intelligence, or used to be a human from before the Great War. Hell, they try to kill one of their own members because he's a synth.


IIRC, they even have side quests that involve taking over settlements and taking "tribute" from them. Historically, they've stolen tech from nearly anybody. The Lyon's Brotherhood was the exception to the rule, but that Brotherhood may as well be dead.

I see the Railroad is actually the evil faction of the group. They do a tiny amount of "good", depending on how you view synths, which I personally see them as just machines, while screw over everyone in the Commonwealth now that they destroyed all stability and technology and hope for the future. They are the extremist group that doesn't care about consequence, thinking they're doing good while have dire consequence for the rest of the world, their tactics are underhanded, betrayal, driving people to suicide. The Institute didn't kill your wife and kidnap your son, they are not at all responsible for it and can't even be held indrectly responsible for what happened. None of them were even alive back then. Most of the actions by the Institute is made by Father and hides secrets from everyone even the heads like with Dr. Li, the heads who disapprove of his actions are being disposed of like Virgil. Most of the Institute are innocent and have nothing to do with the things Father and some of the heads did. As the Institute director, you could become a benevolent ruler and use the Institute resource to help the surface, you can help synths more than the Railroad can possibly ever can, synths can openly exist on the surface in cities rather than hiding and, unlike the RR, doesn't kill all the people who are hostile toward synths. The Institute is said to save humanity, so there is a really bright future ahead of the Commonwealth. The BoS is able maintaining order, protecting the people of Commonwealth from mutants, raiders, and feral ghouls. They actively seek out hostile groups instead of waiting for hostiles to attack them like the Minutemen. Both groups are actually very good, they're jerks on the surface but their benefits are very good for the Commonwealth, the RR while seems good in term of their goals, their goal is short sighted, destroying everything, kill more than they save, and actually result in the worse state of the world out of any faction.

Depending on if you believe the institute. Personally I think they're full of it. I definitley disagree with you on the Railroad and feel they are a chaotic good but this isn't about them. Let's keep this on one faction. Otherwise we're going to be repeating the same debates and getting this thread locked. I do have a question for you BloodMage. If the dark secrets of the institute such as the FEV project were to get out to members that didn't know what do you think thier response would be?

Given how Father sending out coursers to hunt down Virgil, he seriously didn't want it to get out, the Institute is a scientific community who look down upon violence and they all call you out and get angry at you for killing or banish the other two scientists. If words got out, Father would face a lot of scrutiny, people will no longer view him as the savior, if your personal hero turned out to be some kind of murderer or a pedophile, your opinion about them would change significantly. There actually is no benefit for getting out the words about Father's wrongdoing, the only reason you're there, the only reason you can even become director is because of Father, he's the one who appointed you, defended you, and blinded overlook you working for the thieves. If the Institute lost their trust in Father, it would also extend to you since he can no longer defend you have a commanding authority over it. People who get mad at Father and want to kill him while becoming director keep forgetting that Father is the one who made it possible in the first place due to his blinded love toward you. Chaotic neutral is more like it for the RR, they're not a force of good, they have their own good to fulfill and would willing to break rules, kill people to achieve it, even if they're good people.

Which Mutants do BOS seek to kill that everybody else doesn't?

They have no history of killing non hostile mutants, unless you can point out any evidence of this......and the sole reference to them shooting (but not killing) non feral ghouls in F3 isn't really it. There is no canon history of BOS killing non hostile mutants despite it being trotted out on a regular basis.

They try to kill a Synth Infiltrator, so yeah not really a sign of them killing non hostile mutants and frankly at best banishment is the best option for Danse since he can never be trusted since he can be turned off and reprogrammed by the Institute at any time.

They can through the feeding the troops buy, charm, intimidate or kill the already established settlements for their crops. I see nothing wrong with the locals contributing to their defence, just like the NCR who expand in the same manner. The player decides how or even if those events happen.

Historically they have taken weapons tech (generally energy weapons) from locals and scavenged the rest from other locations however in this game there is not a lot of examples of BOS 'stealing' tech.......I think they try to take the MM artillery in the MM ending, so again weapons tech. Aside from that all the tech seems to be taken from hostile groups.

Yeah thankfully the para military charity has ended, but given the state you find them in F3 that should really be a good thing, however EC BOS is still recruiting from the locals and helping them by exterminating the hostiles that plagued the locals. EC BOS has simply taken the logical step of taking control of the region if they are going to be defending it.

I was talking in the context of before you even got there. Not if you were looking to become the director. I should've made that more clear.




I believe necrovamp was referring to Non-Feral ghouls and supermutants like Fawkes. If you take Hancock aboard the Prydwen one of the NPC dialogue has them say "The only good ghoul is a dead ghoul." Not exactly preaching tolerance. Is this blown out of proportion? Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Ghouls face discrimination in a lot of places.


Then again I'd also argue Lyon's reforms are the only reason the brotherhood is alive otherwise the enclave probably would've won in the east coast. Since a hardline BOS would've seen no reason to help project purity.

They probably would lose trust in Father, and some may even start to oppose him, which is happening with people like Virgil who's running away, Dr. Li who feels disgusted and leaves the Institute, etc. This is why he has to hunt down Virgil at all cost since he knows about his secrets. Everyone worships him because they don't know about the terrible things he did. All the people who involved are either killed or on his hit list, I feel like Kellogg was killed not only because Father wanting revenge but also because he knows too much. It's ironic that the one person he actually trusts end up betraying him and leaves him to die as a bitter old man.

You mean like how bringing Hancock and Nick to ANY place, not just the Prydwen? Stop saying like it's a BoS thing rather than it's a Commonwealth things where Diamond City and Fallout 3 cities openly banned ghouls from entering the city, Vault 81 almost make snide comments, ghouls are not welcome anywhere and the Slog and Goodneighbor was formed because ghouls were driven elsewhere. BoS has never attacked normal ghouls, at least as a campaign or ideology, mostly just individual ideology which doesn't represent the BoS. It's not a negative point against the BoS, if I see a supermutant holding a gun, I'm not gonna wait to see if he's friendly, I would either run or kill him before he notices me. Fallout with real world physics would mean that you don't have a health bar to find out if the supermutants are friendly or not, if you want to test your luck with your life, then go ahead, but you won't survive long.

Bingo!

This is not as much a choice about which is faction is the lesser evil. In my mind there is clear evidence that the Institute is evil. Don't blame Kellogg for example, he is a sociopath, warped due to the choices he made during his life of course, but a tool nevertheless. He at least knows what he is and admits it. The Institute, BoS, and the RR all have long standing policies of the ends justify any means. For the Institute the world is their laboratory and the citizens and creatures of the commonwealth are just test subjects. Don't ignore their charter, mankind redefined. I didn't find any evidence during my time in the Institute that the current human population is the intended beneficiary of their work. Historical acts are the only reasonable way to evaluate and predict the future for the various factions. As the game's protagonist you might be able to redirect them during your short life but that isn't an option in this timeframe. Look around, the wasteland is littered with evidence that institutions always revert to their fundamental nature given enough time. For me I made decisions in the game based on what I thought I could impact within the framework provided.

I'm not saying it's a BOS only thing. So I don't know where you're drawing that. I'm only saying I'm not going to trust a guy who literally threatened to kill one of my friends because thier different.

Who's that guy? A random BoS member that could be someone from the Commonwealth? The same people who could be working as the Minutemen?

You mean like how the BoS was bad then good then bad again or like how the Minutemen was good then bad and then good or how the Insitute was good and now bad and may be good again under your leadership? Would you gun down all the Minutemen if you were up during the time they were corrupted? Your argument about how they will revert back to their fundamental nature given enough time can be applied to any group.

It doesn't take much for bigotry to evolve. Deacon can tell you that from firsthand experience. But I think we're getting off topic again.

WC BOS and the Enclave already clashed in the past and all the BOS factions tend to react the same way to to threats like the Enclave, its highly likely that even without Lyons' 'reforms' BOS would have clashed with the Enclave. Although its possible project purity wouldn't have existed but for Lyons' BOS aid in its initial creation, so without that aid there would be no east coast conflict with the Enclave simply due to them not coming into contact with each other.

As for the non feral ghouls and non hostile super mutants, again no evidence of them being killed.......there is Virgil of cause, but even as an example of the only non hostile super mutant in the game (Strong is openly planning to go back to killing and eating humans) he is still one of those responsible for the suffering and torture of captives turned into super mutants and released to prey on the locals. Frankly In our world Virgil would have a cute nickname like 'Virus' Virgil and be hunted down for crimes against humanity.

I've pointed out that BOS are openly bigoted towards ghouls before, although I also note the lack of ghouls in any of the factions in my past playthroughs.......are the BOS bigoted towards ghouls, of course they are but then almost everybody is bigoted towards ghouls in the wasteland, BOS members are just more open about it but this doesn't translate into any examples of dead ghouls at BOS's hands.

Clashed if they crossed paths sure. Won against them is something else entirely. My point is without the reforms they'd probably be stuck in the same state as the Mojave chapter. Let's get back to the institute though. If you want to debate more about brotherhood policies just PM me.

Except Lyons' BOS in F3 isn't stronger because of Lyons' Reforms, they are circling the drain when the Lone Wanderer appears and the Enclave's defeat can be largely placed at the LW's feet rather than Lyons. The only reform that can be credited to Lyons that made the BOS ultimately stronger was the recruiting of the locals into the ranks which has continued if not increased under Maxson reforms.

Anyway back to the Institute......

And it wouldn't just be the BoS, but it could be extended to other factions as well like the Minutemen. If we're talking about hypothetical situation here. Let's just get back to the Institute though.

Institute is not evil just some people, the end.