I feel sorry for some people in here. Whats your problem? [censored] off.


Why should you control how people play their games? So your pointless bragging rights in a SP game entirely focused on your own personal entertainment carries more weight? Perhaps you're so weakminded that you cant stop yourselves from using the commands or superb mods unless being spanked by the game when doing so.


It must be extremly tiresome to always focus on how other people have fun instead of your own fun.

For the same reason the game needs mods in the first place: personal taste. Survival will be offering a new playing experience, it's not just a difficulty setting. Many people who enjoy this type of gameplay will likely never want to go back to Normal settings. It shouldn't be a choice of mods or survival.

Considering how weapon balance is going to be different in this new mode any mod that adds weapons/armour will need to be tested within a Survival environment. How about new settlement items? New plant types for example. They'll need to be tested to be compatible with the hunger/thirst mechanics. New creatures, or even companions? How will they react under Survival's new balancing?

There's plenty of people out there who never play without mods. These same people will probably enjoy the new survival aspects of the survival mode. Why should they have their single-player experience ruined because some people have a problem with the concept of somebody doing something that doesn't affect them in the slightest?

Of course the foil to all this is we aren't sure of Bethesda's real intent behind this mode. Sure we know some details but not the whole design philosophy behind it. We probably won't have the full and complete picture until the mode actually arrives - and this is where either way the mode is going to prove VERY divisive.

Some people think it will be a FO:New Vegas type mode, that's just a few new rules to complicate and enhance the game that you can choose to enable if you want to. The mode they envision has all the scope for mods, console commands and all the usual stuff because at it's core it's just another way for any given individual to enjoy the game.

Others think this is Bethesda's big opportunity to make a meta-competitive mode. They might never have supported multiplayer, but by enforcing a strict set of rules every single player has to abide by within that mode players can accurately compare their accomplishments with those of others. That simply hasn't been feasible until now, since the games are all pretty easy (or can be turned to Easy and then back up again to bypass challenging spots), console commands can skip huge chunks of the game or cause you to clip through walls, fly or become invincible, and mods totally alter the entire balance of the game meaning a modded Very Hard might actually be less challenging than Easy. And yes, console players have been able to use exploits too, so any given accomplishment until now - be it on PC or console, is decidedly suspect leading to less enthusiasm and praise/respect than you'd expect people to give to those who really had achieved great things completely legitimately.

Pop into any thread discussing the "save by sleeping" system for example and you'll see one side campaigning hard for the feature to be made optional or toggleable. "Optional" and "toggleable" pretty clearly mean that in principal everyone should be happy. People who want the restriction can have it, others who don't simply don't need to live with it. Every single time anyone suggests this, the other side jumps in and decides that such a feature shouldn't even be optional or toggleable - despite the fact that there's nothing stopping THEM actually enabling the feature, their main beef is they don't like the idea that someone somewhere isn't playing with the same restrictions as they are.

But why? If the mode was designed around my first point, simply a new way for each individual to re-experience the game, then allowing such a toggle would not be a problem. Person "B"s game would have absolutely no bearing on the game being played by person "A". The problem is, sufficient people believe the mode is being designed around by second point - a monolithic and static mode that presents the exact same experience, therefore challenge, to every player. In this case people could actually compare their progress. In this case, someone showing screen grabs after the final mission completes of their quest log, stats, and possibly some direct evidence of these being Survival Mode shots - they'd actually mean something, and it would be much harder to disprove that the person didn't actually demonstrate skill and/or expert knowledge of the game in getting that far.

So is Survival being made with "bragging rights" in mind, or is it not? I don't personally care either way, but from various threads on this forum and others it seems a whole lot of people are putting a lot of stock in the mode being completely locked down and hardcoe as possible, and a whole lot of people get incredibly defensive/abusive with the mere suggestion that a feature be made "optional", usually resulting in that person being labelled a "casual" among other insults. So a war's basically going on between the self-declared "super hardcoe" and those they call "casuals", and the end product will likely get a split reaction from people who were looking forward to the mode whatever they do:

- Bethesda make saving a toggle, the "casuals" cheer, the "hardcoe" get angry Bethesda listened to the "casuals".

- Bethesda enforce bed-saving, the "hardcoe" cheer, the "casuals" get angry at the "stupid" restriction, especially when they CTD every half hour.

Problem is, there's also this:

- Bethesda enforce bed-saving, but allow console/mods etc, the "hardcoe" especially on PC realise they STILL can't brag about their accomplishments as people just assume they used GodMode or something, eventually start to petition those things to be removed, while the "casuals" get angry at the "stupid" restriction, which due to PC's *ability* to just hit Tilde and type "Save 'mygame'" renders the objection to the toggle basically moot unless you're on a console. If PC's aren't using "save 'mygame'", then people could also just NOT toggle the save limitation.

Now I'm fairly neutral here. Heck I might not even play the mode (I never "got around" to trying the New Vegas hardcoe) but from an outsider's perspective I see a bit more value in Survival going all the way with it's "second mode" angle. I find the idea of "MENSA test" type things appealing, and if everyone gets to take the same exact "test", the idea of actually knowing how you stack up to the rest of the fanbase in general is actually worth investment into the mode, as it would be a bit more than "regular, but with loads of tedious micromanagement, and you can't carry much or choose when to save' which, depending on HOW a person describes it could sound insanely dull otherwise. This "second mode" may as well go all the way and do whatever it can to differentiate itself from the main mode because:

- The main mode is the one Bethesda advertised originally, and we ALL still keep that.

- Survival was made as a FREE patch that Bethesda CHOSE to make for us. It's not part of the content we were "entitled" to from the moment we bought the game, Bethesda did not have to make it, so when taken for what it is (added content that we're all free to completely ignore), it doesn't or shouldn't actually matter what restrictions or limitations are imposed on that mode.

Thus if Bethesda do restrict console commands and mods from Survival, as long as you retain full console command/modding functionality in the main base game you're actually not losing a thing. You're still gaining, because if Bethesda had not decided to make such a mode as free DLC, nobody would be sitting here debating the lack of running mods or using the console for a mode we do not have. You only get the command console to help you make mods, yet if there's no mod support in Survival due to Bethesda really wanting you to play this particular mode as-is you simply have no legitimate case for absolutely requiring command console access there. Yes, you *can* say that disabling the odd corpse or getting yourself unstuck are legitimate reasons to keep the console, but let's face it - console owners which comprise at least half of the players still get those issues and just have to deal with it. If that's acceptable, then despite the slight inconvenience it can't exactly be the end of the world if you guys have to deal with the same issues we do for the entirety of one "mode".

And if that's too much of an inconvenience, well "Survival is optional" seems to be banded around quite a bit in these parts. Don't like the save restriction and want the feature to be optional? "Survival is optional". Have a PC that crashes your game every half hour? "Survival is optional". If there's absolutely any validity to the whole "don't like something about Survival, don't play Survival" then it's equally valid in this case too.

But make no mistake - disallowing console commands and mods for survival won't have ANY impact at all on the modding scene whatsoever, you'll still be able to make and play mods like you've always been able to. Things will continue like they always have... and you'd always have that extra mode to play if you felt like a challenge. That's no bad deal no matter how you look at it.

There's no point to restricting mods or console commands when in survival. It's a gameplay experience, a new style or mode of gaming.

It's not like you get a medal or anything for playing survival mode. Achievements and so forth are meaningless and worthless. There is no competition, there isn't the Survival Olympics so I don't see any point in Bethesda removing mod support or console. In fact they'd be stupid to do so because that'll cause a lot of complaints. People already want survival to be 1000 different things and the only way that can be accomplished is with the use of mods so that people can customize survival mode.

I've been very vocal that survival should be no saving without bed, and no fast travel. But I have no problem if others want to mod their game to allow either one. It's a single player game, why should I care? And yes, of course people will cheat to make survival easier, just like they do now to make the normal game easier. So what?

just wondering how many of my mods this dlc / glorified mod this will break on my game

Pffft. Alls I'm getting from this, re: console commands, who's really casually gaming- PC, or console gamers?

Until mods are launched for console, we on console have to actually play the game as intended.

The fu-? Why? Survival isn't supposed to be some [censored] contest; it's supposed to be fun in and of itself. Why prevent mods (or console commands, or just plain old cheats) in a difficulty mode in a non-competitive, single-player game where there's not even a leaderboard or other mark that says 'I did awesome things!'?

It seems to me some PC gamers athough they have all the tools at hand to mod everything they spend the most time crying lol

Here comes the [censored]storm again about PC having console "to make survival easy"

Wont the Devs need to have the console to test survival and test it in the DLCs? So it would be a lot more work for them to have to disable and enable it everytime they want to work on and release patches for the game.

I noticed these new stats too--I believe that they are related to the upcoming Survival Mode.

Survival Mode is not "meaningless" with console commands. It's a new way to enjoy a single player game that adds new mechanics and balance. I've never used any of those commands on Fallout 4, but I have used TFC to take some nice screenshots of my character standing on high places.

No legitimate place? This isn't a competitive esport, it's a single player game. I really like some of the new gameplay mechanics that are being added through Survival Mode--fatigue, adrenaline, disease, wellness, and the damage rebalance in particular. In fact, I would like it if they went a step further and made crippled limbs more significant, requiring a doctor to heal them. I might use a mod to add that to my game. I don't see any legitimate reason to lock out mods or console commands from the new mode. Why the assumption that mods and console commands are equivalent to "cheating"? Why do you guys care about how I enjoy my game?

This attitude that mods are "cheats", and that people who don't like some aspect of the proposed Survival Mode are "scared" is getting really tired. Plenty of people might like to use mods that add even more difficulty to the new Survival Mode. People also may not be excited about giving up a convenience feature like "save anywhere". Doesn't make them "scared" or "save scummers".

I personally save often, but usually only load once per play session (when I start). I like being able to save and quit at a moments notice. I also sometimes need to exit to the main menu and reload to fix glitches like texture not loading properly, or companions being stuck in "combat damage" mode--sitting on the ground and unable to move even after combat is over, with no option to stim them. Deacon has been doing that a lot lately. Reloading fixes a lot of bugged game state problems, and being able to do it quickly and get on with my game is preferable to incorporating it into my playthrough and having to go find a bed even if my character doesn't need sleep at the moment.

Hi

Restricting mods for survival difficulty, why you expecting some kind of uber challenge? Fact is my modded New Vegas ramps up the hunger thirst and radiation through mods and I'll most likely be doing the same for Fallout 4. If you care so much about what others do or don't do in a single player game you should probably reevaluate your priorities in life.

I've been thinking about the few mods I'm currently using, and I don't think I'd want to give them up to play the new Survival Mode. They're not major game changers, just little visual improvements or convenience things, mostly:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1097/?: Keeps bullet and shell casings in the world longer instead of them just disappearing after a few seconds. Works nicely alongside the new weapon debris feature--after a big firefight, the whole area is littered with piles of spent ammo casings and blown-out chunks of concrete and wood.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/281/?: Looks a lot nicer when you're using the Pipboy light.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4106/?: Gives a center-screen warning message with an OKAY button when your settlements are being attacked, so you don't miss the little notification that appears for a few seconds in the top corner of the screen.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2857/?: More realistic durability for Vertibirds so they're not constantly crashing to the ground as soon as they show up. I guess you could argue that this one might make the game easier, but only if you side with the BOS.

So, why exactly should these mods not be allowed if I'm playing Survival Mode? How do they make me a cheater?

Anyway, if BGS went down the unlikely path that's been described in this thread (locking down Survival Mode in a very restrictive way for the purposes of bragging rights), then I'm sure a mod would come along that enabled the new features of Survival Mode without the restrictions. I'd just play that mod rather than the official mode in that case.

They don't. Play the game how ever you like, it does not affect anyone else in any way. Only the elitist [censored] crowd really has a problem with it.

Who cares about "bragging"? And if your friends are bragging to you, well.... you know your friends and you know which ones are full of hot air and just roll your eyes at their brags. And random internet people bragging at you doesn't mean anything. In the end... eh, whatever. Seems like making drama out of thin air.

Again. Meaningless. "Survival mode" is for you the player to personally choose to use and enjoy the gameplay experience it provides. If you personally decide to use console commands (or deliberately set out to not use them no matter what), that's a personal decision and only effects you. So again, manufactured drama that means nothing. There's no competition here, there's no parading around saying "I'm better than you because I use such-and-such setting". It's a single player game that you play for your own enjoyment. However that enjoyment is defined or happens (Survival mode or not, console commands or not, mods or not. Or standing on your head, controlling the game with a mic and dance pad, if that's what floats your boat. Who the **** cares what someone else is doing?)

Given that the devs have built their games to be very moddable (complete with simple mod management tools in the games' launchers) and released full-featured modding tools for them (well, FO4's aren't out quite yet), I'd go out on a limb and say that modding Beth games? Is an "intended" use.

That said, just because mods and console commands are available on PC, doesn't meant that many people don't play the game un-altered. It's not like there's people with guns, going around to each house and forcing PC players to install mods & type TGM into the console. /eyeroll

edit: heck, and even if people are modding, it doesn't mean they've altered the gameplay at all - one could install a huge number of mods that just change/upgrade the visuals, and the game would play entirely the same (just with sharper textures, shinier hair, and lots of boobs. Or whichever. )