I think this should be in the lore section? Maybe?

I'm not so much concerned about the lore, as the general direction world-building's taken. Can I call it a genre shift?

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned MK, as Tamriel's not his but everyone's. I love Skyrim and played the [censored] outta Oblivion, just the chapters seem more disjointed, post-Morrowind.

Oh! Ok now I understand! Sorry, you're original post was so creatively worded that I didn't follow it!


OT: I didn't play Arena or Daggerfall so I can't really speak as to how different the TES universe has changed from those games to the newer games but I have noticed some little differences between the newer games.

I dont feel that we've wandered at all. Aetherius isn't JUST Heaven, the Daedra arent just mindless Demons, and there has been a lot more development of Kirkbrideian concepts than anything offered earlier.


We may not he running around in magical space ships, but Planes Walkers than its ever been.

Well to be fair he did say Dremora specifically, but no I don't think they are either. Morrowind showed that they had their own personalities. Oblivion showed that they had complex social structures within the military. Skyrim didn't actually show a whole lot about the Dremora other than that they are aligned with Mehrunes Dagon, so really you can't judge Dremora by what Skyrim offered.

We wouldn't know they had those structures without Battlespire. That game established the Dremora, and Morrowind and Oblivion went nowhere with that. We didn't see complexity in that structure, like in Battlespire. Not only the Dremora, but all Daedra clans. The Dark Seducers actually suffered the most banolities, becoming mere soldiers, with the exception of their Duchess.

Also forgotten by everyone but MK, even Battlespire's primary designer, seemed to be Imago's apotheosis to the Mehrunes of Clan Dagon. If it wasn't for Mankar the Revolutionary, who's mostly glossed for being insane, there wouldn't be any development of that idea.

Tharnatos is completely lost in the debris of change, which wasn't an MK-only concept. None of this was Kirkbridian, in the sense he alone was conceiving all this.

OP, i kinda gotta strongly disagree with you on mostly everything.

1. The Ideal Masters are still crystals. Just http://www.uesp.net/w/images/b/be/SR-place-Ideal_Master.jpg were purple instead of red.
2. Where on earth are you getting this "Dremora are mindless demons" from? Just because there wasn't much on them in Skyrim? Morrowind and Oblivion had plenty about them to show they're not just "mindless demons", Oblivion especially (which you said you've played a ton of, so you should already know there's plenty to them).
3. Based on a quick googling, i can see (- partially, since i'm still unfamiliar with this Tharnatos thing -) where you're coming from with this. I do think Jagar Tharn could do with a serious fleshing-out to help explain what the hell was going on, what he was doing and why he was doing it. If it had to do with the Mythic Dawn, that does make some things fall into place.
4. ... What? The Crux is a region located within Aetherius just like Sovngarde and the like, it's not all of Aetherius itself, that's like saying Dagon's Deadlands are all of Oblivion. I don't know where you're getting the "prison" or "foundry" stuff from either, though it sounds like other regions of Aetherius.

All that said, i do agree, i want me some Battlespire-related goodness :v. But also bear in mind that the lore's more prioritized per game than anything else. Battlespire had to do with the politics of Dagon's legions as well as the Daedric language, so that's where we learned about all that stuff. Morrowind had to do with the Nerevarine, so that's where we learned all about that and what was focused on. Skyrim had to do with the Dragons, so we learned all stuff about them that we didn't know before. Battlespire's lore not coming up again until Dawnguard is just more a matter of it not being relevant to the prior situations, not because anything's been discarded.

What did we really learn about dragons, though? They have a language that can make people dead (or make them not dead anymore, if you're the boss dragon), and they had followers a long time ago that lost a war to some other people who didn't like dragons.

Nothing was expanded beyond that. Dragons were in charge before and they had, like, masks.

Serious missed opportunity to flesh out the history of the Nords.