Is there a mod that completely unlevels Morrowind? Both loot and enemies? After playing Requiem and coming back to Morrowind, I'm finding myself disappointed with the leveled world. I prefer a world that does not revolve around your character.

I'm thinking about working on an unleveling mod as a long term project but didn't want to reinvent the wheel if there is already a good mod that does this. I'm not looking for any other changes, just an unleveled world, where the enemies you encounter and the loot you find in containers is not dependent on the level of your character.

I remember "True unleveled creatures" and "Unleveled creatures 2.0", they would unlevel the creatures kind like the gothic series, you could find any level of enemy at PC lev 1. Can′t seem to find a link on google, maybe you can search them on MMH.

http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/44097/?

Hopefully it's what you're looking for.

Thanks. I searched on MMH and found these. They appear they may do what I want, but they don't have any documentation with them, so there is no indication of how they approached the issue of unlevelling the world, in terms of whether they make some areas of the world easier than others or whether the chances of meeting high level enemies is the same everywhere, how they made these choices, etc.

For instance, do they make the area around Seyda Neen a difficult area filled with high level enemies, or do they keep it an easier area filled mostly with mudcrabs and kwarma with only rare high level spawns.

But thanks for pointing these out. I may look at them in TESPCD to try to figure out what they do.

Thanks yes. I have a few questions about your mod.

• Does the unleveled items esp unlevel items found in containers, or just enemy drops?

• If containers are also unleveled, are their "better" leveled loot lists with higher changes of good loot for areas with tougher enemies?

• Does unleveled creatures make certain areas easier and other areas harder, like for instance, does the coastline around Seyda Neen remain mostly mudcrabs and kwarma with rare chances for higher level enemies to spawn, or does it become an area where high level enemies spawn frequently?

Also, in the event I decide to try my hand at making my own version, so you have any advice? Were there any resources you found particularly helpful in this type of endeavor?

- Both enemy drops and items found in containers (if those containers/enemy use leveled lists for their drops)

- Some tough enemies and certain containers will use "good" leveled lists to spawn "good items". Example: the leveled list "random excellent melee weapon" is used by Dremora and Dremora Lords. I simply unleveled "random excellent melee weapon" so that a Dremora/Dremora Lord could use a daedric weapon if you happen across one at character level 1 (in vanilla it's dreugh and dwarven weapon).

Vanilla Morrowind @ level 1: chance of dreugh or dwarven

Vanilla Morrowind @ level 15: chance of dreugh/dwarven/ebony

Vanilla Morrowind @ level 18: chance of dreugh/dwarven/ebony/daedric

Unleveled items @ level 1: chance of dreugh/dwarven/ebony/daedric (although ebony and daedric have much lower chances compared to vanilla)

- Unleveled creatures: 1) set most (if not all) spawn level to level 1 ... and 2) lower the spawn chance of high level creatures. So some areas might be tougher when you first started out.

Take a look at the leveled lists (Leveled Creature and Leveled Item) and see if you want to make any changes. It's a tedious process.

I just came from the boat and have a dagger i stole from the Census and Exise. Oh look, an Ascended sleeper. And now i'm dead. BIG FUN. not.

The whole point of MW is Growing. If you want to die at Level 1, there's plenty of bandit caves between Seyda Neen, Balmora and Pelagiad to do so.

Even if you had access to a full Daedric Armor and Weapons at Level 1, your strength wouldn't be enough to move in it, your Heavy Armor Skill would be utterly low so it would hardly protect you from a simple Golden Saint's attack. And your attacks would miss each time. Frustration!

If you're in a hurry and don't want to do the first 25, 50, 100 levels, why not use modTestCharGen? It's brilliant.

On the other hand: if you can make a Mod that does what you describe, and does NOT kill a freshly delivered prisoner straight away, i'd be happy to try it out. I'd say: open CS and start doing it!

It seems like you may be missing the point of an unleveled world. It's not about skipping low level play or making the game more difficult at low levels or avoiding character growth or premature access to high level gear (which in an unleveled world is protected by high leveled enemies to prevent premature access by the player).


It's about creating a believable world that your character can grow in, rather than a world that drastically changes as your character grows.


Personally I don't find it believable that certain enemies don't appear at all until your character reaches higher levels, nor do I find it believable that Seyda Neen is idyllic at low level but is then overrun with cliff racers as soon as your character reaches higher levels. The world should not change just because your character happens to have leveled up.


Oblivion is often criticized for its excessive world leveling but Morrowind suffers from the same issue, just to a lesser degree.


Further, unleveled does not mean nonsensical. It would make no sense to encounter an Ascended Sleeper wandering aimlessly along the coast near Seyda Neen no matter what level your character is.


On the other hand, we are warned to stay away from daedric ruins because they are dangerous. Yet there is nothing more dangerous than a scamp (maybe a clanfear) hanging around the outside of these places at level one. Scamps are pretty easily defeated at level one, so the in game description of these places as dangerous seems inaccurate. Daedric ruins should have a variety of daedra running about at all levels. In my view, characters who are too low level to beat higher level daedra in combat should stay away or be prepared and capable of running away should they encounter a daedra that's over their head.


There are certain places that should be much much harder to survive at low levels, such as daedric ruins, blighted areas, ash storm areas and anywhere inside the ghost fence. In the vanilla game, however, you can go anywhere in the exterior world and never encounter any difficult enemies at all, until after your character levels a bunch then the character of the world completely changes. That breaks immersion, at least for me since it makes no sense why the world should change like that.


It's especially noticable when you get a quest to fill some soul gems with high level souls from house Telvanni and find out after consulting the internet that your character has to gain two more levels before such daedra will even appear in game. So after your character searched every daedric ruin they can find and there are no Storm Atronachs to be found, they instead focus on levelling rather than searching for Storm Atronachs and a couple character levels later all of a sudden Storm Atronachs are everywhere. Very immersion breaking for the world to change like that just because of character level.


I am guessing you have no experience with Requiem, but I won't play Skyrim without it. If an unleveled world can work so well in Skyrim, I see no reason the same principles could not work in Morrowind. There are other mods that have attempted an unleveled world in Morrowind, as discussed in some of the posts above but I may do as you suggest and take my own crack at it.


Lots of work ahead though. Tedious work and lots of play testing to get the balance right.

I think what Turija is asking for is a mod which "zones" the locations and makes them unleveled, so as you progress things get significantly more difficult (where Red Mountain would be the hardest Pre-DLC, then Tribunal, which would have zones of its own, and then Solstheim: the most difficult of them all). I'd be willing to do something like this if someone would be willing to help me, perhaps even add quests and locations with "bosses" to fight, like an MMO of sorts. Heck, that actually sounds pretty cool, though I think it'd be good to have some things level with the char, elsewise there'll be a point where there's no more progression...

You could use the idea the being a more powerful character attracts more powerful enemies.

Perhaps. Or there could be some unique bosses which will show up if you "clear" an area, bringing some higher-leveled baddies along. But looking at what Turija'd posted, I think it's more like having select locations be more difficult than "zoned" areas. I'm up for doing that if anybody'd help

This is an idea that would require some testing and fine tuning, and a good knowledge of the vanilla game. Now, fortunately in Morrowind, only creatures are leveled (and some bandits on Solstheim).

You'll have to keep in mind that some mid-level quests have you going to Daedric ruins ("Orcs at a daedric ruin" for the FG, "Compassion" fro the Temple).

Actually, I wonder if the implementation of your idea shouldn't require some overhaul of ruins in general; as in, expanding them and adding other areas to them to accommodate for more powerful creatures the further down you dwell in.

Actually, creatures and loot are both leveled. I was actually thinking of it, and decided that, if it were to be done, it'd have to be an overhaul if it were going to be any good. This includes altering, adding, and perhaps even removing numerous quests, npcs, creatures, items, cells, and more.

Well in both of those cases though, your character has to be tough enough to be able to defeat a fairly tough unleveled NPC -- Nuvusa Veleth for the temple quest and Burab gra-Bramog for fighters. Any character who can defeat those NPCs should be able to either deal with whatever daedra happen to spawn outside the ruin (even if it means dipping into their scroll or potion supply) or have a method of retreating if things get out of hand. I don't see why every character should expect to complete every quest every time without having to retreat and come back when they are stronger. With the guild quests in Morrowind you can still advance in the guild by just going to another quest giver and getting tasks from them instead if the quest line from one quest giver proves too difficult. With an unleveled world (at least as I envision it), there would be a decent chance that you would get daedra spawning outside a daedra shrine that a mid level character could handle, perhaps with some potions or scrolls, but there would also be a chance of encountering some more challenging daedra and having to retreat.


That's what makes an unleveled world exciting. Not always knowing what you are going to encounter or if your character can survive and sometimes having to retreat and come back later. That rarely happens in vanilla if you follow the questlines, since the game holds your hand a bit and really doesn't throw you in over your head much if at all.


Although it might make for an interesting overhaul to overhaul ruins, alter quests, etc., I don't think my idea to unlevel the would necessarily require any additional overhauling, since Jordan has already done what I wanted without overhauling anything else.


I might just use his mod. On the other hand, there are only a handful of leveled lists in Morrowind (maybe about a hundred and twenty or so creature lists and another couple hundred item lists), so it might not be all that much work for me to go in the CS and edit the lists myself, since I might want slightly different odds of various enemies and loot spawning than Jordan. That way I could tweak it to suit my personal tastes.


I agree it would take a lot of tweaking and testing to get the balance right. If I get the balance the way I want it, the world will be harder at low level but the world won't get harder as you level like it does in vanilla, thus providing a real advantage to leveling up. At high level, the world will be a bit easier than vanilla since there will be fewer high level enemies, but at the same time the world will be more diverse since you won't always get the same four high level enemies to fight because low level enemies won't disappear (or be significantly reduced in number) from the lists the way they do in vanilla. So when you get a quest for grand souls, you might have to hunt around for a while to find them, instead of having none until you hit the right level and then finding them at every single shrine. One of the things I like about an unleveled world is the diversity that you don't get as much in a leveled world where low level enemies become much more infrequent.


At the same time, the number of cliff racers can be reduced. I like cliff racers, actually, just not every thirty seconds. Changing some those cliff racer lists to 95% chance none and removing cliff racers from some other lists (or reducing their odds) could go a long way towards solving that problem.

Thanks. It sounds like your mod does what I want. I might go ahead and do my own though so I can tweak the odds of various spawns to suit my own personal tastes. I looked at the lists and there aren't all that many compared so some other games that have several thousand leveled lists, and I tend to find that type of modding a lot easier and more fun than spending time with my nose in the render window. I'm good with numbers but not that much of an actual artist.

Hey thanks for offering to make this into a real project. My time to help is pretty limited right now with my work schedule and such. I'm thinking for now I'm just going to tweak the leveled lists a bit for my own use or maybe just use Jordan's mod. That's all I really need. But making it a full fledged overhaul as you and Kalon are suggesting is intriguing. If you decide to do a bigger project based on this idea, I'd be interested in seeing how it turns out.

The Bitter Coast leveled lists do not contain Ascended sleepers. When I play, I use un-leveled creature lists. I'd say the difference is noticeable at level 1, but not extreme. First, there are more spawn points, since some vanilla spawn points are from lists that start at level 3. Second, you encounter greater variety and slightly tougher creatures - I recall being ambushed by a blighted nix-hound near Pelagiad.

Morrowind is already fairly well zoned - the Bitter Coast lists are much less menacing than the Red Mountain ones. Even Bloodmoon is fairly well zoned - wolves near Fort Frostmoth, riekling raiders, werewolves and snow bears further north.

The bandit loot lists and the Dremora and Golden Saint loot lists should probably be toned down. One can give the daedra bound weapons, for example. Sadly, the Vivec vaults share some loot lists with the bandit cave ones, so one might want to compensate for that.

Exactly. It's just a matter of tweaking the lists so you get a good mix of available enemies at any level. You don't need to add or subtract enemies from the lists because the lists themselves are already zoned quite well. The toughest thing you can find at any level around Seyda Neen, for instance is a Betty Netch, but you can see them from a ways off and avoid them.

That's unfortunate but good to know. I may end up leaving some aspect of leveling in the lists but just tone it down substantially, rather than eliminating the leveling completely. The other alternative would be to swap out containers in places like the Vivec Vaults, but I would rather keep this project confined to editing just the lists, rather than a bunch of landscape changes that would cause additional conflicts. Leaving some leveling in the game might be a good compromise. I don't mind leveled loot nearly as much as leveled enemies.

The CS shows how many times a particular record is referenced but I don't see a way to list references. Is there an easy way to do that? Would be extremely helpful information and I know how to find that information for other games but not Morrowind. I have read that you can right click on the object in the object window and select "info" to get a list of references, but when I right click nothing happens . . .

In the object window (not the render window), righ-click on an object, then click on "Info". It will show you all the cells in which one or several references of the object have been placed. if you double-click on the Cell Name in the "Use Report" window, the Render window will be centered on the object's reference.

http://imgur.com/a/2bxZO

Thanks so much for posting the photo. I will try this out tonight and hopefully I will be able to get it to work. Edit: tried it over lunch and it worked. Thanks again!

A simple way to un-level the lists is to change the values in the "PC Level" column in the Leveled Creature info box. Set it to 1 for all the creatures in the leveled list, and the creatures will still appear randomly, but it won't be based on player's level. That way, you won't have to edit every dungeon manually.

Hi Turija if you're looking for a more challenge/hardcoe game, check out http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1596378-ultimate-morrowind-hardcoesurvival-mod-guide/ In it I mention http://mw.modhistory.com/download-26-8834 Which does what you ask. I've been using it a long time, you'll be running into daedra at level one.

Thanks! Yeah, that's what I am doing. I went though about half of the leveled creature lists last night.


But I'm not changing everything to 1 -- not completely unleveling the world, but instead reducing the leveling to the point where the player won't notice the changes since they will be more subtle. I'm also adding more instances of lower level enemies, so the mix of enemies in game will be skewed towards lower level enemies.


In a realistic world, there would be more rats than Kagouti, for instance. Since the large, top of the food chain predators need a lot of smaller stuff to feed on. So I am adjusting the mix by adding more instances of some of the lower level enemies so it will be a little more rare to meet a higher level enemy.