Nice, I never caught that in the 3rd Pocket Guide. I've had people speculate that Camoran may just be a title before, but I've never seen anyone reference that line. Good catch.

About the Lost Prophecy:

Why "and far-star marked," if Dragon-born is supposed to mean outlander? Barelo couldn't see the meaning of "Dragon-born," because he was working with a Dunmeri frame of reference, not from meta-data. I don't think its so hard to accept the Incarnate was a Dovahkiin. Rumor has it, the Nerevarine sailed for Akavir; if one of two interpretations of Dovahkiin is Dragon Hunter, tell me: which continent nests the Dragon Emperor? I think its reasonable to believe the Incarnate was hunting Tosh Raka. Now, I haven't made up my mind, or yours, but that isn't my goal.

Food for thot.

Edit) http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/6/6f/Ideal_Master_Battlespire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140928105615

You must die and be born again. The form your soul may take afterwards varies.

What has the Mandala of Kings to do with the commerce of souls?

There's a problem with I'm Dragonborn Nerevarine.


Either Azura is being psychopomp or Akatosh is when it comes to whose soul going in. I can't imagine these two gods working together, let alone a crazy aedric entity who's too much a mess for Azura to handle... Not to mention both gods are possessive. Alduin is proof and we're talking about a powerful piece of a god, so expecting it to be given out freely is silly, to a daedra of all being. And Azura is... Azura.


So it's a Nerevarine or Dragonborn, not both.

Or neither. I'm actually of the opinion that the PC is just a convenient pawn and Nerevar will never reincarnate.

I'm incline to that opinion, but not because I'm against Azura like most people on this forum who like this theory. People really give her more credit than she deserves, both as source of grievance and savior. She's petty but she's a daedra, I expect no less. But daww she tries her best. How she punish is like a slap of hand, and how she shows her love is extreme and convoluted but she's a daedric goddess.


But then again I prefer the Nerevar Incarnation simply because being badass normal is the Eternal Champion schtick. I still make the joke how the Eternal Champion flipped a finger at Morrowind and its trouble and just waltz through it and out because they were near the end of their quest as it's been a decade of [censored] by Tharn.

To be fair in the context of the prophecy Dragon-born is more of being born under the Empire then being, well, a Dragonborn. It's also worth noting the Nerevarine being the Nerevarine is completely dependent on the player as the Nerevarine didn't meet every requirement of the prophecy.

Yet what are Dawn and Dusk without Time? You have nothing in the way of "proof," any more than I have.


Constructively, you might not apply the anthropic principle, when delving the capricious Lords of Misrule.

What are every gods in TES without Time?

And yet Time had always be known as HIS Law. Despite how the Princes boast to command and shift it, they could never make time theirs to will.

Mmhmm, let's forget the Aedra have never like it when the Deadra has encroach their territories. The whole Alessia and men rebellion in the Heartland is proof of this. It's a reason why you see Divine Crusader smashing face out of those elves who makes dealing with those Lords of Misrule, that Akatosh promised to get actively in the way if his dragon-blessed snowflakes sat on the throne. Not to mention Pelinal loves insulting those Heartland elves who had taken a liking to share parentage to Daedra and not just Aedra unlike the mers of the Summerset Isles, nor the Dunmers of Morrowind.

I get what you mean, don't bother trying to find reasons with the gods, because we are mortals, we are puny and can barely comprehend it. They are not like the mortals. I also like this explanation, because it is use as a reason why mortals have different conception of the gods, because they can only see a glimpse. But I find it disturbing it is use as an excuse for laziness, because LOL, it's gods, don't try to think hard about it, duh!

Where have I heard this excuse? Oh wait, Lol, it's TES! Don't try to think so hard about it, it's a bunch of nonsense anyway by the devs. Actually, it's an excuse people use when it comes to arguing fiction that could have been more than the genre they're built in.

Oh ok, now it's intellectual laziness? Do you have something to prove; the [censored] is on with fans in this board? Do you even know what the anthropic fallacy is?



What exactly was your argument - that the Nerevarine cannot be Dragon-born, because two possessive gods cannot work together? Have I got that right?


I don't even know where to begin. That's an absurdity level with saying, birds can't swim because they fly.

Hmm, maybe because the settings speaks how the Aedra and Daedra interact. The latter laughs at the former, the former have actively work against them. And all of a sudden, you're saying because they are beyond mortal conception therefore one shouldn't try to understand these beings because they are outside of it, or even apply some reasoning in their action because in the end mortal views are limited and flawed.

In a fictional setting no less where is has been proven and stated by in-game and devs that mortal views DO matter when it comes to shaping the universe and the gods. I'm sorry I sound like an ass, but anthropic fallacy (or should I say principle since we're not going to touch the physic definition and the realm of discussion in there) has been use as a weak excuse times and times again that I have gotten tired seeing it as it totally disregard what the setting established in hand.

As for proof, and I'm talking proof that Daedra and Aedra do not go hand to hand and cooperate in any [censored]:

I chose Alessia and Men rebellion as an example as its existence is proof that the gods do have a plan for mortals, and it is in any way does not involve with the Daedra.

The Chimer Exodus is another. Trinimac told them not to follow the Lords of Misrule.

There has always been bad rivalry between the two. Yffre is looked down while Azura has been looked up by the Khajiits, the Bosmer say different. Mora has been known as a trickster that Shor and Twin Gods told to be vigilant against. Akatosh whooped Dagon's ass in Oblivion.

So I'm sorry these proofs aren't enough, but because all the examples I've known, I'm saying the Aedra and Daedra do not mix at all. And that is what you are stating, that Azura came by with a piece of Akatosh, a soul of a dragon then pop her own with it. It be a delicious irony, since Nords and Dragonborns are not well-liked by the Dunmers since Nerevar fought and help defeat a dragonborn with Vivec's help. But no, I can't imagine within the realm of possibility unless the writers, again, wrote how the gods has changed, specifically the Aedra as they are literally shaped by the mortals belief in them.

Disregarding this means we have absolutely nothing on the gods, which is utter [censored] if you ask me considering the writers went to make a setting like this, only to brush away discussion because we shouldn't be bothered at all because of this principle doesn't fit the daedra. Unless, of course you were talking about the physics definition, then I lost you there.

except we never hear that use of the word anywhere else.. ever, at anytime..