Discussion on Procedural Playthrough Variation

Post » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:10 am

The idea of random and procedural terrain variation was discussed very recently on the "Beyond Skyrim" thread, mainly due to No Man's Sky being in the spotlight.



However, that spawned a somewhat diffferent concept in my head. An idea that, if implemented correctly would eliminate the problem of "Player Knowledge".



The issue of "Player Knowledge" is mostly prevalent in Morrowind. Someone who is experienced with the game can essentially grab several artifacts and rare items even with a new character, since he/she knows where the are located.



So what if the items didn't have a set location? What if their location was procedurally altered for each playthrough?



And this doesn't have to stop there. Provided we want to go further, NPC disposition, Levelled lists, events, quests and so on could be procedurally altered for each playthrough, essentially offering a somewhat "fresh" experience each time.



What is your opinion?



1)Do you think it can be done?


2)Should it be done?


3)If yes, do you have any concerns regarding the concept's implementation all the same?

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Rachell Katherine
 
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Post » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:01 am

I think, to an extent, this is something they tried to do in Skyrim, at least in terms of Quests and Quest Items. The problem was hat it didn't have enough volume of quests and objectives to make the system feel fleshed out, so it felt repetitive and, for some, boring (personally, since it was largely limited to non-story actvities like Bounties, I didn't have a problem with it... Work is repettive). Fallout 4 has a similar problem, but then tacks on a forced urgency to that problem to make it feel like you're failing if you don't engage in the repetition.


All of that said, I think there is definately room for more Radiant (because, ultimately, Procedural and Radiant are the same thing) content, especially when it comes to items and quests. Lesser Artifacts, spawns, objectives and even faction activities can be tied into more dynamic, procedurally generated activities rather than being pre-set in the world, it's just a matter of ensuring there is sufficient volume, and the dynamic doesn't feel overly repetitive or RNG driven.


Disposition, however, I think is something that needs to be left out. Changing an NPCs starting disposition changes their expressive personality and social perspective, and impairs the ability to define their character. It should be, at best, influenced by the PCs stats and race, not a variable value.


Similarly, major artifacts are something that should be Story-Related, and as such require more structure. Things like Spell Breaker, Auriel's Bow, Goldbrand etc. all have a story to tell, and trying to work those stories into Procedural Content is difficult.
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Erin S
 
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Post » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 am

1)Do you think it can be done?

Certainly. We already have randomized quests in Skyrim. Skyrim also introduced a new feature called Dummy Objects. Dummy Objects are hand-placed items in the world, as in Morrowind, but they are also leveled. So, for instance, a hand-placed Iron Dagger on a table may be Steel or Orcish at higher levels. If they can level hand-placed items then I don't see why they couldn't randomize hand-placed items as well.


Martigen's Monster Mod for Oblivion randomizes stats of enemies (skills and attributes, size, confidence, aggression, disposition). Every time you load a save these things are randomized from scratch. You never know what you will encounter when you meet an enemy, even with the same save. So we know that randomizing Disposition can be done.


2)Should it be done?

I like the randomization that Mart's mod brings to Oblivion. It makes every encounter feel new and exciting. But beyond that, I think there is room for a judicious use of randomization.


3)If yes, do you have any concerns regarding the concept's implementation all the same?

I am not enthused about randomizing hand-placed items. I think a little of that will go a long way with me. I have no problems whatsoever using player knowledge. After years of role playing, it's second nature to me. The way I see it, permanent hand-placed items help to make a game world feel real, stable, persistent. I like fixed hand-placed items for the same reason I like fixed hand-made landscape: they both help create the illusion of a permanent place, a real place. When things change too much a game world stops feeling "real" to me.


I also think randomization of non-hostile NPCs would need to be strictly controlled. Some NPCs are always going be friendly toward the player: it's the nature of the NPC, or of the situation they are both in. I wouldn't mind a little variation her and there when it is appropriate, but I think randomization of Disposition would need to be applied with nuance.


Myself, I would rather see race, class, and past deeds have a big effect on Disposition in future games. I would add a bit of randomization here and there as flavor when it made sense to do so.
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Star Dunkels Macmillan
 
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