[WIPz] Realistic Combat

Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:51 pm

You could use Setpos to move the NPC, or the PC for that matter, a small distance left or right to simulate dodging .... at least it would look that way in 1st person.
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Cameron Wood
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:59 am

Well I gave the mod a try and I have to say this is easily now in my top five favorite mods. Very, very impressive :goodjob: . I do have a couple of small question though. Does the 100% chance to hit affect animals' attacks as well? And how do I go about switching to defensive mode for blocking?

Edit: Thought of some others while playing. Does this affect werewolves or mod added NPCs/Creatures?


As far as creatures go, I think it used to effect them but that required using the player agility to 0 method, which I think I used at first and them got rid of it entirely. (Tell me if you notice weird agility modifications) The defense mode is sneak, (Ctrl on my computer) so whatever works comfortably with you. Werewolves (I think, not yet tested) and mod added NPC's will work with this.

How is the damage calculated now that you always hit and what do the skills do?


Damage is calculated same way as the game engine did before (I wish I could tweak that, but I don't think I can). The skills are used in the script to determine success in a block, the damage taken if your defense fails, and later I'll add combat scenarios or moves that depend on what weapon you're using against what weapon the opponent has, and implement weapon skill as a success or fail factor. The script will compare the player and the NPC's weapons - here's part of the code:

	If ( Player->GetWeaponType == 0 ); Here we average out the player's block and weapon skills, depending on the wielded weapon.		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetShortBlade ); This is for the blocking aspect of combat, where these stats	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 1 ); dictate what temporary advantages or disadvatages are applied.		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetLongBlade )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 2 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetLongBlade )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 3 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetBluntWeapon )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 4  )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetBluntWeapon )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 5 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetBluntWeapon )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 6 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetSpear )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 7 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetAxe )	Elseif ( Player->GetWeaponType == 8 )		Set PlayerSkills to ( Player->GetAxe )	Endif


I tried the beta here is what I observed.

With a level 20 battlemage I really could not tell much difference other than the sounds.
With a fresh off the boat PC it felt mostly the same as playing the level 20 battlemage other than the hits were for much less damage.


Conclusion @ this stage of beta IMHO: Helps lower level PC's fight better ... but not much deference for high level players that I could see.

I'll be watching this ... But at this point I'm sticking with MWE's combat enhancements & Fliggerty's Combat Behavior mod.


Well the less difference the better, so that's not too bad. I tested that extensively and concluded that low-level fighting is still pretty challenging. I was sparring with Sellus Gravius as usual and while I got my hit in for nearly unnoticeable damage, my blocks all failed miserably and I found myself dead while trying to counterattack. I left plenty of room for higher-level characters to exert their advantageous combat stats on the player (or vice versa) with block fails, and it might still be easier for low-level characters but for the time being I think it's satisfactory for testing. Later I will try to address this, but it will take a lot of tweaking to get it just right. It probably felt like you were playing a level 20 because you're used to landing most of your hits while playing that character.

I don't know if your goal is actually to make combat in Morrowind as "realistic" as possible, as the mod's name seems to suggest, but I can think of few things less realistic than what you've done to the combatants' chances to hit each other. I don't intend to be insulting to you, but I honestly imagine anyone with experience in any kind of close-quarters combat would just laugh out loud at the absurdity of that idea. For myself, I tried the fencing club at a local university for a few weeks a couple of years ago; I don't think it would surprise anyone to learn that nobody in the club landed even close to 100% of their swings. ;^)

With that very unrealistic change to the game's combat, I wonder, what exactly do the weapon skills do now? I know you said they are still important and they are considered in the calculations, but what does that mean? What calculations? (damage? critical hits?) And how do they influence those calculations?


I want to make it kind of realistic, but right now I'm not really worried about realism, I just want to control the entire system before trying. All these features that need testing are my attempts to see what I can make possible before I start tweaking everything. I understand you're trying to stress that this takes away the simulation of dodging, but with this, I hope to re-simulate that myself under my own conditions. I've already tried reducing the attack radius of the player to make it harder to hit an opponent and I can make it even smaller if necessary (I noticed NPCs could actually dodge to the side quite frequently and avoid your hit entirely). I've already pondered SetPos and maybe animations to make the NPC (or even the player) literally dodge. All this right now is kind of low priority though, I just want to get the block system working perfectly for now. As for calculations, see above.

Some ideas,

Sometimes a dagger would only cause a small wound which won't count to health ratio at all.(Replacement for missing at low levels. Too much small wounds can cause excessive bleeding and from there it will affect health indirectly.)
Sometimes a low level stabber(in real life or movies) couldn't grab on the dagger after stabbing. Dagger will be stuck in the victim(Like arrows behavior.) And not all stabbings are deadly. One should watch Dexter to learn. :)
Sometimes you miss, sometimes a miss can hurt the user(This may need a proper missing animation).


These would be very special features that I can top onto the mod near it's completion (and I intend to add a lot more), but right now I just need to get the basics working smoothly.

You could use Setpos to move the NPC, or the PC for that matter, a small distance left or right to simulate dodging .... at least it would look that way in 1st person.


I was considering ways of doing this with script commands and Setpos would definitely be vital; however I haven't given it much thought yet because I don't want to get ahead of myself before the basic code is done.
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:30 am

Just a quick conformation for you Casey. The mod works perfect for PC werewolves (AI controlled werewolves are still untested), and creatures do not have the 100% chance to hit like NPC's do. I haven't noticed if agility gets affected when fighting creatures or not yet. I haven't been able to get defensive mode working. I've simply been pushing the sneak key when holding a shield but my character isn't blocking at will. I'll give it another shot in a bit, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

EDIT: I just found out that some NPC's are selling the spell "Combat Readiness" (Or something like that) for 1 gold. Not sure if that's intentional or not but it's there.
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Lily Something
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:06 am

Any progress with the mod?
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Lyd
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:44 am

I use Oshiels animation replacer and customize it so that all I use was the hit/dodge animations and now when ever me or a NPC get hit and it miss, they would actually jump(back flip sometimes) out of the way or get knocked back when hit(it also happens to PC, just not in First person mode which makes it a lot harder because it leaves you unprotected and the NPC/PC could land a extra hit if fast enough).The animations are a little bit over the top but I like it more than watching my blade go through someones head and nothing happens.
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Jack Bryan
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:28 am

Any progress with the mod?


Yes, I've reworked the script and it's much more stable now. I might release another demo in a bit.
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R.I.p MOmmy
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:13 am

This is great news. I look forward to trying it out.
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casey macmillan
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:15 am

Hello,

This looks like a great idea!
Morrowind's combat system desperately needs an overhaul.

Just a few questions though,
I usually always play as a pure mage, (But even I think the combat system needs improvement!)
and I want to know whether this will factor touch and ranged spellcasting.
(Sometimes mages have to fight, too!)

Also, will the block skill still matter, because it really should.
Perhaps to make it more important, you could make the block skill
a factor in your SetPos dodging, and in your general parrying & evasion.
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hannah sillery
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:59 am

The only reason I don't like this is because I feel it goes against a fundamental RPG concept that the character's skills--not the player's--determine how well things go. I'll take my stat-controlled strikes over realism as far as RPGs go. If I want to experience realistic medieval combat, then I'll take up fencing or join the SCA.

However I really like the idea of having more combat sounds....is there any way you could create a separate package just for the sounds?
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Roanne Bardsley
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:39 am

Yes, I've reworked the script and it's much more stable now. I might release another demo in a bit.
So... how close to that are we..? :ninja:
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Kate Norris
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:16 am

I suppose this requires MWE, yes? Then I'll pass, that thing is really unstable.
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SUck MYdIck
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:06 am

Quoting the OP:
Up to four NPCs can be affected at a time. For the official release there will be many more scripts and thus many more NPCs affected. This will not require any external programs to run.

which means MWE won't be needed, which is good :D
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Love iz not
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:12 pm

Oh, that's awesome then. Can't wait for this to be finished, hopefully it'll be more stable than MWE + MWE mods.
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jodie
 
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Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:50 pm

I changed the number of NPCs to be affected at one time to 5 (one more). I'm still working on this and if it generates enough interest, I might start putting more time and effort into it's completion. If anyone is still willing to test this and give their input, that would be great. :)
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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:39 am

Good to hear you're continuing with this, Casey Tucker.
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:38 am

Sounds like a great mod. For me, realistic = immersive. And that's what this mod would do - the new hit sounds simulating blocking, additional sounds - the blade scraping then a hit sounds bomb too. +1 to interest generated :)
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Lexy Corpsey
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:06 am

Well this really caught my eye. I've always hated the old combat-system, your efforts shouldn't go unnoticed :)
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Floor Punch
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:25 am

As long as there is interest I have incentive to keep working on this. :)
I've really come a long was as far as stability goes, but I don't feel it's quite ready for another test run. Maybe in a month or two..
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Jennie Skeletons
 
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Post » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 pm

There is much interest for me too. ;)
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Anthony Santillan
 
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Post » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:53 am

There is much interest for me too. ;)

Although I agree that always hitting whatever is on the crosshair isn't overly realistic, as long as they are no animations for evading or intercepting the blow, I'd much rather prefer it over an arrow passing through someone at point blank, so count me in!
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Charlie Sarson
 
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