Turija et al.....

This is why vamps attack their 'food supply'......



In TES, only a few top vampires are seen to be intelligent and cunning.....Janus Hasildor(Oblivion) Lord Harkon and immediate family....Sybil Stentor...Hert and Hern.....and a few others.


Most other vampires are said to have allowed their bloodlust rule over common sense.....some are little more than animals. Most vampires in the wild hunt alone or with maybe a fledgling.....they are not well organised and attack on sight.


THIS is why they launch senseless random attacks on towns and cities......they are driven to feed and act on impulse.

So, the argument is that the vampires attacking towns are overcome with bloodlust and have lost control of their senses and therefore behaving irrationally? Hmm. I see some issues with that explanation . . .

First of all, I would reject the premise that the majority of vampires are little more than animals, as this does not seem supported by the in game evidence. There are over two dozen named vampires in Skyrim that fall into the Harkon, Hert and Hern category of being able to function in an intelligent and cunning way. There were not as many named vampires in Oblivion but in addition to Janus Hasildor, there was his wife Rona as well as Seridor, who was able to blend in with townfolk unnoticed until someone witnessed his feeding and he had to orchestrate an elaborate plot to cover that up. Even the vampires that we encounter in various caves in both Oblivion and Skyrim who are hostile, often seem capable of intelligence and cunning based on the activities they seem to be performing before we disturb them, which include things like enchanting things with black soul gems and doing basically the same types of things that we see necromancers doing. And in Morrowind, there were various vampire factions with questlines and whatnot.

To be sure, some vampires can be overcome with blood lust, like the vampires in Oblivion's Azura quest that were locked away for an extended period with no chance to feed, but I don't see a lot of in game basis to conclude that the majority of vampires end up incapable of rational thought.

But, even assuming for the sake of argument, the truth of the premise that the majority of vampires in the world are unable to control the bloodlust long enough to form rational thoughts, it still does not explain the connection between the random attacks and Harkon's plot that the Dawnguard questline is centered around. Random irrational vampires lusting for blood and attacking the nearest warm body seems totally unrelated to Harkon's plans

So if uncontrollable bloodlust is the explanation for the attacks, and that is unrelated to Harkon's plans, then we are left with not one, but two totally unrelated "vampire menaces" to deal with and defeating Harkon should not stop the random attacks from happening. If bloodlust is the reason for the vampire attacks, then the attacks should continue until the PC has cleared out all the vampire caves in the game.

Welcome to a Bethesda game. Where concepts appear nice on paper but evidently end up poorly executed. The cherry on top of it all is that these issues are never fixed and you must forever deal with their poor design.

Enjoy!

I red up on this so i'm very careful about going into towns at night. I didn't have the DLC so its all new to me, but watch out, you might become a vampire, it happen to me and I was mad but also like wow [censored] that can happen!. Make sure to cure the curse before daybreak to prevent it.... also you have to get in your mind to back track and save, because [censored] like that is just going to happen. The first game started I got everyone in river wood attacking me because I attacked the first NPC you meet. So I just started another game because the game this time around is way more aggressive about attacking NPC's, they will fight back and they are strong. Still had no NPC's die on me though. Good luck.

Turija


Firstly.....I never said they were incapable of rational thought.....they're not idiots you know


But when you meet a wild vamp....they go all "your blood is mine" etc and give chase.....they do not enter a pleasant conversation and discuss a modest blood donation!


The 'evidence' for them being animal like in behavoir comes from the way they are regarded by the more civilised vampires...Hasildor in Oblivion, for example actually says this outright....but you find a similar superior attitude by all the posh vampires who clearly regard wild vamps as lesser beings and contemptible.


Wild vamps want to feed, and won't think twice about whether is a good long term idea or politically correct! Any more than you would expect an unnamed bandit to discuss polite business.


Secondly....Dawnguard introduces more random vamp emcounters.....not just the big Harkon event......so when DG loads...you get the whole nine yards.......you accept Dawnguard.....then you accept the premis of a tangible vampire population....not just Lord Harkon's crew.


Bottom line.....you should expect most vamps to be aggressive and pro-active in seeking food.

Umm, I thought you said they were "little more than animals" who allowed their "bloodlust to rule over their common sense." That sounds like incapable of rational thought to me.

Anyway, their actions in randomly attacking NPCs on the street instead of breaking into someone's house and feeding on someone who is asleep certainly seem like the actions of someone who is incapable of rational thought -- unless they have a reason other than feeding to randomly attack people -- which so far no one has come up with such a reason.

If the attacks are just for feeding, the rational thing to do would be to break into a house where people are sleeping and try to feed quietly, instead of randomly attacking people on the street. Even predatory animals will look for an easy kill rather put themselves in a situation where there prey is certainly going to fight back, with the help of the guards that are constantly patrolling the streets..

As you wish, but I know a few dogs that behave rationally.....yet will still bite if provoked....or savage a small animal.


Its still bloodlust ruling over common sense....in the context of the debate....i.e. Not carefully farming human cattle as Harkon might do.....and not stealing blood quietly during a victim's sleep....which would be common sense.


Remember also....the vampires are supposedly more restless now....braver....as the guards remind us....due to DG dlc of course. So they are assaulting towns and villages because they think they can....and are proven right. Wild Animals do gradually become more brave and risk attacks for food as a combination of hunger and courage build.


I am not saying the random vampires are wild animals literally. I am saying the DG dlc makes them brave and prepared to risk proactive hunting to feed.....hence targeting population centres. Think like...wild lions where man has set up near their territory...wary at first...but get braver with hunger....then risk striking a settlement.


But....I'm not arguing for the sake of it, just explaining the post Dawnguard install vampire rationale as I see it.......and with that, the reason why I believe Bethesda was right to allow vampires to be "very inconvenient" to the player.

Right...now...must get on.....my char is in the middle of a raunchy night with Roggi Knotbeard

Dragons kill off vital NPCs as well but no one is starting threads about them.

I have seen vampires appear during normal daytime hours at least a few times.

It can be annoying and probably should have had a fix from Bethesda at a more prudent time sometime after release. Having merchants especially main ones that are used in the more frequented cities die from vampires or dragons can be extremely frustrating.

Would have been nice to have some other towns person take over if they do die, like in the case of Belathor.

The day time was likely because you managed to get inside your home/inn and then slept/waited until morning and then you enter the city and then the attack happens. The attack was about to start at night but you managed to get inside before it fully started so it waited.

Whiterun is quite common for this since the house is not that far away from fast travel point.

I dont know. I seem to remember a day attack taking place at small gate less town somewhere in Skyrim. It was a while a go.

While these attacks can be annoying for the reasons already stated, I must admit I love the challenge when this does happen. It can be quite fun to know you and your allies are being attacked and its up to you and others to help defeat them. Gets the adrenalin pumping.

Edit - it was off a fast travel just for your info (I think).

That is meta-gaming. No player should ever have to resort to meta-game in order to work around bad game design. That is unacceptable to me. It should be unacceptable to everybody.

Choice and consequence in a roleplaying game should involve roleplaying decisions made by the character. It should never - I repeat, never - involve meta-game decisions made by the player for the purposes of avoiding poor game design. That is not my definition of roleplaying choice and consequence.

If you think that's bad apparently some people don't sit in a full suit of armor as they play the game!

In this day and age such action is un-acceptable... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqa9tKarkNA

There are two things you can do:

1) Complete Dawnguard as the first thing you do.

2) Don't level up beyond level 7 (don't choose your upgrade or perk and you'll stay as level 7).

It kinda svcks, but it is what it is. At least the Dawnguard questline is interesting to play through and it does take you to some of the most visually stunning places in the game.

Meta gaming is unacceptable?.......and should be to everybody?


Really?


Metagaming.....correct me if I am wrong.....means making a change to the way you interact with the game that works outside of the provided game world. In short....using your own knowledge about the game to affect gameplay.


Like...oh lets see.....choosing a nice mod to install......


When you actively CHOOSE to install USSEP (Usleep) to get around those annoying bugs......you are metagaming!


Your RP char does not know you have chosen to mod the game....

Just as they do not know you avoided Fast Travel near a city to miss the vampire attack!



Have you ever had to not spend Septims on an item your character would have naturally wanted BECAUSE you needed to keep the coin for something you needed to buy them later? Thats also metagaming!


Have you ever avoided going into an inviting dungeon or stayed clear of an area where a Sabrecat hangs out etc....because YOU know of that danger...and it will be instant death for your char....but your RP char can't possibly know of that danger in advance eh! Metagaming!