Well, that's not very helpful at all


It wasn't too bad, honest :angel: But, truth be told, that might not be a bad idea at this point. I know that I started a few stories that I didn't like half way through; most of which I never even posted here (the only one I did was Fabula de Viro :nope:) Better luck next time.

Screw it, I'll force myself to give it one more try. If the next post doesn't go well, this fanfic is done for.

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I watched as the newcomer to the Brotherhood got up from the table and left the room. Actually, he was a higher rank than all of us, even though he joined only weeks ago. Lucien and Vicente both loved the guy as if he were a child, and they were the parents. Or something like that. The guy svcked up to them all the time, did every contract asked, and was showered in coins for it. I hated him. I've been in the Brotherhood for years and I'm an Eliminator, while the new guy is already a damned Silencer. I had no clue if anyone else hated him, either, but M'raaj-Dar was ferocious with the kid. But then again, he was ferocious with everyone.

Not only did I dislike the newcomer, I didn't trust him either. He would leave the sanctuary from days at a time, and come back without speaking a word to anyone but Lachance and Valtieri. I don't think he even tells them what he does. He was hiding something, and I wanted to find out what. I ripped out a piece of my apple with my teeth and swallowed it. I took a drink of wine, and stood up from the chair. I wasn't hungry at all.

As I left the room into the foyer of the sanctuary, I noticed the newcomer was gone. I looked past the pillars, and across the room, still with no sight of the newcomer. I then lost interest, not understanding why I even cared. I made my way across the foyer and pushed open the thick wooden doors to the barracks. I trotted past Gogron smashing down a dummy and Telaendril summoning some sort of apparition.

I slumped onto my cot and brought the sheets to my face. It was a cold night and I didn't want my face cold. I checked around me to make sure Lucien wouldn't sneak up on me again, then went to sleep. I later woke up from a sore throat. I pulled the sheets from my face and yawned loudly, swinging my feet to the other side of the bed and climbing up. I rubbed my eyes, and opened them. I stared at the horror before me. Gogron's headless body was leaning against the wall, and Telaendril with her neck completely ripped apart. I gagged, and darted from the room.

I opened up into the foyer to find Ocheeva's limbless body hanging from the ceiling and Vicente's head smashed to the floor. I threw up, and began running away. I ran to the ladder, and pulled myself to the top to find the hatch locked. I searched my pockets frantically, but my key was gone. I slid down the ladder and sprinted to the stone door, the main entrance. I pounded the door rapidly trying to get it open, but it wouldn't budge.

The door was locked, and there was no way out of the sanctuary. I looked behind me to see the new member approaching me with an enormous axe. I was astounded at how the small Bosmer could carry such a heavy weapon, but what surprised me more was how he hadn't found me yet. It could've been because my face was covered. As the Bosmer closed in on me, I continued my failed attempts to open the door.

The Bosmer heaved the axe onto his shoulder. I watched as his muscles exploded and his veins were shown through his skin. He brought the axe above his head, and with all his power, swung it down toward me. I ducked down and rolled under his legs, and saw him smash right through the stone door. He turned to me, grimacing, and then brought the axe back up to hs shoulder, ready to swing again. I recovered and got back up, and dashed right past him before he could harm me.

I burst through the door into the old abandoned house, and reached the front door, kicking it open. I kept running until I finally got out of the city, and began going out into the countryside. I stopped myself, and stared around me. That Bosmer would be here any second. I loudly whistled. The sound echoed into the night. From the green of the forest, I saw my horse, Raiilen trot toward me. It stopped at my side, and I then climbed onto her back. I pulled its mane a little, giving it the signal to go. Raiilen began going back into the forest with me on her. I turned back behind me, and just before Cheydinhal became a speck on the horizon, the Bosmer came from the city, and stared in my exact direction. I didn't stop.

I turned back in front of me, pulled down my hood, and rested my head on Raiilen's neck. I sighed loudly. How I just got out alive was beyond me, but the real paradox here was why the newcomer betrayed us. I knew something was up, but I had to figure out what was going on. I then realized that Lucien wasn't in the sanctuary; if he wasn't there, then he couldn't have been dead. I had to find him and confront him about this. I closed my eyes in attempt to get some more sleep, and Raiilen knew where she was going. I always called her if I needed to get to my safehouse, and she knew the usual route.

Quitting and retrying because we don't like it isn't good. Quitting is never good, actually.

A fast reply: MUCH better than the last time. IMHO you go from a C - to a B - . That is good progress.

:thumbsup:

A more detailed reply later.

Okay then, I guess I should try as much as I did on that one. And before anyone yanks my chain about it, I'll start seperating conversations, as much as I wouldn't want to.

You still don't get it. It's not a matter of want, it's a matter of need. You need to separate paragraphs when a new speaker speaks. That's just how you're supposed to do it. It's wrong to NOT space when a new speaker speaks. We're "yanking your chain" because we're trying to help you do it the correct way.

Well, it seems to be the standard here but it's not in a novel.

What? It doesn't matter if it's a novel. It doesn't matter if it's a novelette. It doesn't matter if it's a short story. You separate paragraphs when a new person speaks. It's simply the rules of writing.

EDIT: Wait, I'm confused now. Are you saying that you're NOT supposed to do it that way in a novel? If so, then you're wrong. As I've said, it's the rules of writing.

It's not exactly a rule, it's more like the agreed upon standard. There are several authors, Cormac McCarthy & E.L. Doctorow are two that spring to mind, who don't always seperate. You'll get passages where they follow the standard, and passages where they break the standard - in the same novel. They're trying to make a point though when they do that, it's not just because they couldn't be bothered, there's a specific reason for them going against the grain. It's more of a rule online though, mainly because of courtesy, simply because it makes it just sooo much easier to read the damn thing. Everyone notices a difference between reading on a page and reading on a screen.

And of course I'm wrong. Figures...

Sorry, everyone. I thought I was right and I thought I was helping out.

Lol Reds, I'm not saying that you're wrong. You could argue that by being the agreed upon standard, it has in fact become a rule. In fact I'd agree with that.

Or to put it another way. McCarthy and Doctorow have enough Pulitzer Prizes, National Book Awards, National Book Critic Circle Awards etc to do what they damn well like. They've earned that right. The rest of us haven't, so unless we can justify that we have a really, really good reason for breaking them, then I'd say we're best off sticking to the rules/standards

If it helps, I thought it was a rule, too. I've never run across a professional writer that did not seperate their speakers during dialogue. Is that a technique for so-called "literary" fiction, or something? If so, I'm not sure it would fit in a genre piece anyway.

Besides, I still think writers should seperate their conversations. It's just more readable that way.

Hey look... now I'm defensive.

I'm not trying to plug my story by saying this, but I dont think you always have to separate the speakers. If you've got the quote marks around the sentences and have them entered on a different line, I think the separation disrupts the quick flow of conversation. I remember Sven Hassel books where he would write dialogue that way, and I liked it. If there are just two speakers I don't think it would get confusing.

I suppose it is more commonly used in so called "literary" works, yes. Probably because they have the reputation and prestige to actually justify it to their publishers. I'm certain that some genre writers, probably those with literary aspirations, will have used the technique though as well, as it's just used to make it clear who is saying what really. I've seen writers who start new lines, writers who don't, writers who use quotation marks, writers who don't, some use dashes to signify the new speaker... As long as it's clear who is in fact saying what, does it matter? I'm all for "rules" being broken, if there is legitimate justification for doing so. Writing being art, and all art being subjective.



Yes, it's easier to read, I'm in full agreement. And it is my preference as well, especially when reading on a screen.

..Cut..

The separation seems to stem from a change of point-of-view. But when you want to stay with a single person's point-of-view, then I don't believe you need to use a new paragraph when it comes to dialog. But it's usually safer to just use a new paragraph.

And, bro, just chillaxe.

To the author; m8, no-one called you stupid. Everyone was honoustly helping to improve your story/writing.

It's as I indicated yesterday,(looked into several novels I've read recently) a new speaker will be started on a new sentence, not a new paragraph. My fanfic got the same criticism so I broke up the text so it isn't a wall. I don't see the problem with a wall of text (hell; I just read Imagica - Clive Barker, nothing but walls of text in that book, +/-800 pages :wacko: ) but I guess a lot people here have a short attention span (this is a light-hearted pun, NOT to be taken seriously!!)

Hypocrit, anyone?

Ya'know, calling people (who are trying to help) a hypocrit isn't a good way to make friends.......... :shakehead:

You know, if you're going to quote something I've said, at least take the whole damn thing in context.



Is what I actually said. And I'm afraid your justification of "I can't be bothered" doesn't quite qualify as a legitimate justification. It just means you are inconsiderate of those who you're asking to read it.

This argument had already ended, why are you bringing it up again? And I don't believe it is hypocritical at all. You've just taken what I said completely out of context, and twisted it to fit your latest argument. Why bother? And more to the point, why am I bothering any more?

And this is when the reader goes "Well, this person is awfully rude. Do I really want to try and help them anymore?" The answer to that question should be a definite no, but meh. I tend to be a stubborn person. Still, OP, you're actin' a fool.

God, teaches me for trying to make a story for this secton of the forum.

[censored] dikes.. Reply if you really want to waste your time, but I'm done with this thread. I'll be sure to try not to ever contribute to this forum ever again, ever wonder why only a small amount of people come to this forum? By the looks of it, all you guys do is starve for someone to post or make a new topic, and when someone does, you trash it up with 'help' posts, but on the other side you don't understand how insulting it is the way you post. I don't care if you criticize me, but when you put words in my mouth like 'Did you just say you're too good for proper grammar?' or insult me for messing up a single detail, it just makes me mad. Try looking up the definition of criticism, because all I've been recieving so far is [censored].

:wave:

And just so you know, making fun of people and calling them names doesn't make you right.

Clean up.

Having read through - it's not being reopened.

Firstly, my opinion is that whilst the story from the OP was not that bad, the criticism was over the top. When someone is starting out writing stories an over critical approach tends to be off putting, a gentler approach with the "new guys" would be much better.

It hasn't helped that the OP has got upset about some of the comments - a question and answer approach is the way to deal with it. However, name calling is never excusable, attempting to belittle someone is never acceptable, taking a thread off topic with discussions that don't involve the OP is never acceptable.

Next time, look at the obvious level of the person writing the story and tailor your responses to that level, a good writer does not suddenly appear, it may take a lot of practice and learning to get there and attempting to achieve this in three or four short chapters doesn't happen.

I am not taking sanctions against anyone for the posts made on this occasion, it seems as if everyone got carried away, but please don't repeat this again.