The Last War?

Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:50 pm

It's possibler the Skaal know nothing at all about Anu, Padomay, Lorkhan, Shor, or what have you (or rather, those names have no place in their mythology). The Skaal could be to the rest of the Nords what the Yokudans once were to the Ra Gada: A group that retains an unassimilated, totally pre-migrant splinter view of the universe.

Here's another possibility. For some reason, I can't help but associate the All Maker with the Sun. I really don't know why, but there it is. Considering Magnus was the architect of the creation, is it possible that the Skaal are some kind of bizarre Magnus-worshiping splinter group?
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flora
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:20 pm

Magnus, maybe, but I honestly doubt it because, for one, they are referred to separately, in some cases with the Sun as a creation of the All Maker.

From the little bits of info I know about the relevant info, it currently appears moreso as a primitive ideology that kinda just says that "good goes to the All-Maker, and bad to the Adversary."

As I've said, an example is the world-eater, which in some other myths is the Duality combined, is attributed to the Adversary.
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Samantha Wood
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:52 pm

Magnus, maybe, but I honestly doubt it because, for one, they are referred to separately, in some cases with the Sun as a creation of the All Maker.

From the little bits of info I know about the relevant info, it currently appears moreso as a primitive ideology that kinda just says that "good goes to the All-Maker, and bad to the Adversary."

As I've said, an example is the world-eater, which in some other myths is the Duality combined, is attributed to the Adversary.

Well, since the sun was created by Magnus, it makes sense.
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Laura Simmonds
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:09 am

Using that logic, you help support my point: that if the Sun is Magnus, then the All-Maker isn't Magnus.
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Justin
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:56 am

Okay, I have yet another queston. I just read that all the major faiths in Tamriel agree that Lorkhan created Nirn, but then I read that the Nords believe that Alduin (their name/understanding of Akatosh, I understand) created Nirn. This seems rather contradicting. Am I missing something?
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Brandon Bernardi
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:57 am

They're two halves of a dichotomy, commonly referred to as an enantiomorph, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=485557&st=0&start=0.

They are still distinct personalities, however, and are typically treated as such.

This is also a key in understanding http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/arcturian.shtml and Tiber Septim's apotheosis.

Note the lore is often intentionally contradictory. Sometimes it's not a matter of trying to find out which possibility is correct, but a matter of accepting two contradictory scenarios simultaneously. So Akatosh is Lorkhan. Lorkhan both convinces and tricks the gods, and they simultaneously fight and defend him. Akatosh gets Trinimac to rip out his heart from his own chest thinking to strike against Lorkhan, who is himself. And so on and so forth.
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Monika Krzyzak
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:32 pm

Using that logic, you help support my point: that if the Sun is Magnus, then the All-Maker isn't Magnus.

However, if you consider that the sun isn't Magnus, and is instead a rip in Oblivion created by Magnus, then the All-Maker is Magnus.

Personally, i think the Skaal have the closest thing to a proper view on Nirn, with the All-Maker being personification of the good things created by the Godhead, whereas the bad things are the Adversary, which is also the Godhead. Where as most of Tamriel is fooled into thinking that the Godhead = 16 or so Daedra + 8 Divines, or the Ra Gada, who believe in Vivic-knows-how-many gods, they have it down to two, which is the closest to the truth that any cultures have arrived at. Of course they still have it wrong, but they are closer than anyone else.
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Angus Poole
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:06 am

If "proper" means "simplified" then yeah.

Eh, I see what you're saying about Magnus; I guess it's just...boring...to me, honestly. And as Albides has said, the two are an Enantiomorph, which makes them extremely real, and in turn, extremely correct. It just so happens their view is just much more simple.
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SamanthaLove
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:26 am

Now that we're on the subject of enantiomorph, the thread has already answered the rhetorical question I was going to ask: What was the First War?
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:32 am

Indeed. The idea of the First War has brought me to ask another one of my random-but-relevant questions about something I've started to read up on:

Of the Eleven Forces of the Psijic Order, we know that one of them is Change. I'm guessing the other "one" is Stasis, correct? I mean the idea of change encompasses many, MANY things, so it's not like there can be too many other forces.
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Manny(BAKE)
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:10 am

They're two halves of a dichotomy, commonly referred to as an enantiomorph, http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=485557&st=0&start=0.

They are still distinct personalities, however, and are typically treated as such.

This is also a key in understanding http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/arcturian.shtml and Tiber Septim's apotheosis.

Note the lore is often intentionally contradictory. Sometimes it's not a matter of trying to find out which possibility is correct, but a matter of accepting two contradictory scenarios simultaneously. So Akatosh is Lorkhan. Lorkhan both convinces and tricks the gods, and they simultaneously fight and defend him. Akatosh gets Trinimac to rip out his heart from his own chest thinking to strike against Lorkhan, who is himself. And so on and so forth.


Okay, let's see how well I understand this. If I'm reading this right, Akatosh/Lorkhan/Alduin created Nirn, and the Last War is most likely when Lorkhan/Alduin/Akatosh will return to attempt to destroy Nirn in a sort of final assault (rather than Alduin "eating" the world, although the creator does return to destroy it), and the Mortals and Divines, including Akatosh (Lorkhan himself) fight to stop him and save Tamriel.

Is this correct or am I way off?
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Jinx Sykes
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:04 pm

I'll try to offer some sort of an answer before Albides puts me to shame:

Basically, the world is screwed; as MK has said, "none shall survive." The world is gonna get eaten so the next one will get "pooped" out, so to speak; for the record, these existences that are created and eaten are called "kalpas" if I recall.

I haven't looked too hard into specifically what "Alduin" is (besides a few skims), but Alduin sounds more like Satakal the Worldskin, who basically creates and destroys kalpas. He's also the idea of Anu and Padhome combined, or Satak and Akel to be consistent with http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml#Yokudan.

I suggest you to look into http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/monomyth.shtml and http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml. Get ye to reading these books, boy!
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Ella Loapaga
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:14 am

Okay, let's see how well I understand this. If I'm reading this right, Akatosh/Lorkhan/Alduin created Nirn, and the Last War is most likely when Lorkhan/Alduin/Akatosh will return to attempt to destroy Nirn in a sort of final assault (rather than Alduin "eating" the world, although the creator does return to destroy it), and the Mortals and Divines, including Akatosh (Lorkhan himself) fight to stop him and save Tamriel.

Is this correct or am I way off?

All we know is that the Last War is a war that is the last. Between who and and for what we don't know. Akatosh or Lorkhan or both will probably be involved, considering how often their myth echos (Ysmir, Pelinal, Tiber Septim, plus as yet unexplored beings about whom we only have names) have popped up, typically somewhat truculent. But that's a guess.

946000 is right, the world partakes of cycles called kalpas, but the kalpa-turning may or may not have anything to do with the Last War.
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luke trodden
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:52 am

Speaking of those "unexplored beings," I'd really like to know where the hell the name "Hans the Fox" came from. I personally like it.

I have ideas of course, mainly doing with fox symbolism concerning such stuff as "light-bringing" (which REALLY got me, personally; I didn't even know that was attributed to foxes, too) and other stuff, but has that ever been heavily discussed?
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Susan
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:34 am

Speaking of those "unexplored beings," I'd really like to know where the hell the name "Hans the Fox" came from. I personally like it.

I have ideas of course, mainly doing with fox symbolism concerning such stuff as "light-bringing" (which REALLY got me, personally; I didn't even know that was attributed to foxes, too) and other stuff, but has that ever been heavily discussed?

Don't know. The name used to be Arnand the Fox, which was described by Jobasha as Breton name appended with a nickname about cleverness. Arnand always used to recall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renard_the_Fox, for me, so maybe it was changed to keep the inspiration a little less obvious.
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:)Colleenn
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:24 am

Eh, guess so. Makes a degree of sense, too.
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Naomi Lastname
 
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