I have started 2 characters yet again trying to figure out a question. At higher levels in the game why do the 2 seem to have to go hand in hand? Can do a pure mage or pure marksman for awhile. Then after a few levels under the belt like the gatekeeper a pure mage has to take up a bow or to kill a ghost a archer must use magic. So my question is how does one build a setup of a pure mage, marksman, or a mage/archer that can go the distance? Face any challange. Not be thrown on the scrap heap of characters because a needed skill seems to be missing. Or can a pure mage handle the gatekeeper without using a bow or sword? Or is the answer a Mystic Archer?

I like that idea of a mystic archer, sounds really cool.....I always roll with a hybrid kinda character (Battlemage/Arcane Warrior) strong melee with magic backup. The magic is mainly in the form of attribute/skill enhancing buffs, but sometimes a good destruction spell always helps.

One other point to note is using Alchemy....A good poison to paralyze and damage health can bring an enemy to its knees.

Good luck with your build.

Cheers

Illusion, Conjuration, Marksman as Major Skills, Alchemy, Sneak, and Alteration as Minor Skills. You really only want two attack Skills, or you become too generalist. Use an enchanted or Silver bow to give your character a means to attack creatures that resist normal weapons. Invest in a little Blade training, but keep it as a Minor Skill. Wearing some armor is not a bad idea, RL Archers use Guantlets to protect thier wrists from a broken arrow or bowstring, and Boots are protection from thorns and rat bites.
I know how annoying trying to keep a generalist character playable, and I use them because they do level slower than a pure Warrior/Mage/Acher, but being able to use the zoom to defend the Dremora that you have made into your partner and stealth hit his opponents, while the Clanfear you have summoned is tearing them up is priceless.

I've played a few pure mages - that is, PURE mages - nothing at all but magic. It's really not that difficult, but it requires patience and a bit of dedication, particularly to get past that inevitable level scaling hump between about level 8 and level 15. The "secret" is really quite straightforward - don't ever give your mage any sort of weapon. That pretty much eliminates the possibility of using one right there. If all he has is magic, then all he can use is magic, and he's going to have to figure out how to get by just using magic. And it's definitely possible (and even relatively easy, once you get the hang of it) to do just that. You just have to stick with the magic long enough to have no choice but to figure it out.

The only thing that I find at all tempting to use a weapon against is, just as you mentioned, the gatekeeper, and that just because the game is set up so that it's far easier to kill him with the arrows than anything else. But a powerful mage should be able to take him out anyway - stacked elemental damage plus weakness to element plus weakness to magic will take pretty much anything in the game out.

Now - with archers though, I never play a "pure" archer. I guess it would be possible, but I've never seen the point. I've never had an archer who was disdainful of magic. If nothing else, they all use a bit of alchemy for poisons for their arrows, and many of them use illusion and/or conjuration for distractions and evasion. To me, that just seems a natural fit.

Magic alone is fine. As gpstr says, it takes some patience and study is all. Even easier if you use a staff to block and help attack, or use a dagger to block and deliver poison - you can always start/stop or discontinue those things in progress to adjust your desired challenge.

Magic + bow is fine. Such characters tend to favor illusion/conjuration since they have that bow for killing (fireballs are not important). Poison and sneak are helpful tools (not major skills). I call such a character a mystic archer, and mine won't touch any weapon except a bow. It all works wonderfully.

Blade + bow is fine also. And simple. Shoot at distance, slice up close. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Bow with no back up at all (no magic, no melee) is not something I care to try. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it would be beyond the level of challenge that I care for.

Thank you for the fast replies. For a stacked spell is the damage and weakness is the same spell or does it have to be two different spells? This has brought me more confusion from reading all the articles on this subject.


The Mystic Archer isnt my idea it is a character that Acadian uses called Buffy.

It is your choice, the weakness spell followed by a damage spell is usually cheaper than a combined spell that does both.

I've done a fair number of blade (or blunt) and bow characters. My recent Orc adventurer, Lud, is one such. He uses a mace, but it's the same thing. He's not at all magically inclined, so he just fires off an arrow or two, then goes to work with his mace.

I've only tried one archer with no backup - my avatar Vorlin. He made it to about level 5 before he couldn't keep up any longer, and I knew it was just going to get worse from there, so I restarted him and gave him an axe. With no magic and no melee, he pretty much just ended up kiting as much as possible then "melee" fighting with his bow - blocking with it and firing point blank. That's just not a winning strategy.



The effects can all be in the same spell, but they don't kick in until the second cast. The game is coded so that weakness never affects anything else in the same cast of the spell. And it's vital that the effects be listed in order - damage, then weakness to the element, then weakness to magic. Any other order and it won't work. And you have to be sure to have enough time on the weakness effects that you can get off another cast of the spell before the effects from the last one run out.

The short version of how it works - on the first cast, it does the base damage, then starts a timer on the weakness to shock, then starts a timer on the weakness to magic.
On the second cast, it does the base damage, modified by the existing weakness to the element and by the existing weakness to magic, then when the next weakness to shock goes off, it's ALSO modified by the existing weakness to magic.
And so on - since the weakness to magic not only affects the damage, but the weakness itself, it multiplies with each cast.

You can also do the same thing with a spell that's nothing but the weaknesses, then follow it up with a damage spell. You can cast the first spell a number of times in a row, increasing the weakness to the element with each cast, then let loose with one elemental damage spell and be done with it. And either of those can be enchanted onto a weapon too (one of the common ones is to put the weaknesses on a dagger, since they attack quickly so you don't need a whole lot of time on them - hit a few times in a row, then let loose with an elemental damage spell).

I had the weakness spells in the wrong order lol.. That has to be the reason my characters are failing always had weakness to magicka first than the other weakness spells than the damage.. now I feel like a total noob lol....

I've never had to merge the two classes myself. I've played a pure Magicka based character since I started playing Oblivion using basicly the Mage build. I've also got my current Marksman to about level 35 without having to use Magicka, (Except for the one and only spell she knows - Detect Life).

The key is in how you use each skill. Many people just upgrade weapons/armor on a regular basis without remembering that certain items have an affect where others don't. For example my Marksman started to find Silver Arrows at about level 4 so she started to store them up, always carrying at least 25. While she was doing this she kept on using Steel Arrows until she started to find Dwarfern Arrows. She would only use the Silver Arrows againest Ghosts so that she wouldn't have to cast a spell, simply picking up the used arrows after. She kept doing this up until she started to get her hand on Daedric Arrows. Using poisions at the same time to help her take down her foes. The only spell she has actually ever cast is Detect Life on various levels. She normally goes around in caves and ruins in 'Sneak Mode' to give her a Sneak Critical. She normally only needs the one shot. Anything thats takes two is normally felled by the time it gets within 10 foot of her.

My Mage has managed to go over 500 hours so far without using a single weapon, except for a bound bow on occasions on which she has needed it. She normally gets around everything through a use of Illusion, Alteration and Conjuration.

The Gatekeeper mentioned in the OP is a big problem for the pure mage, as Jayred's arrows and Relmyna's tears are both unavailable for the player to use. However, Jayred should be using some of his own arrows, and the Gatekeeper is not exempt from reflect damage. I've defeated him with a mage that just stood there and reflected his own damage back, while healing anything that got through.

I don't know that a pure Marksman would be possible, as you can't work at close quarters without another skill, and you can't always find the room to put distance between you and your target. Since all the NPC's labelled "Archer" switch to a dagger up close, maybe do the same and consider that "pure enough".

My character is a mystic archer of course, but she deals with the up close stuff by immobilizing her foe (illusion), then opening fire with her bow. I'm with ghastley and gpstr in not really recommending a PURE archer (no magic, no melee).

As far as the gatekeeper, if my mystic archer ran out of arrows or forgot her bow, she might sip four potions that each provide 24% reflect damage x 78 seconds and have her little heal spell handy - similar to what ghastley suggests.

Right now I am playing an archer character and the only magic I need/use is chameleon/inivisiblity and the spell from the mod Arcane Archery that gives you a specific type of magic effect arrow when you cast it. I was using Duke Patricks Archery Mod which makes archery VERY realistic, but also very, very difficult for a pure archer character. I had to deactivate that mod so I could actually get a shot off once in a while, but I would recommend trying both it and AA.

At high levels, bows are a waste of time compared to magic. Theres so many different magical effects, that theres no need to use a bow for ranged damage. Magic alone will be more than fine. Theres no need to have two ways of doing ranged damage. If you are going to use a weapon as a mage, use a melee weapon, since you have magic for ranged effects. It is redundant to take another ranged skill.

Sorry, can't agree with you on this. You're thinking of a Destruction-based mage, in which case what you're saying is true. But one possible alternative mage is one who specializes in Restoration; such a mage would have an effective on-touch offense (Absorb Health), but nothing that worked at range.

In any case, there is nothing wrong with redundancy. The most powerful "magic" skill in Oblivion is Alchemy, and you can't cast poisons. You need a bow for this.

While it is very true that a pure mage requires no trinkets or trappings except skill in magic, that assumes perhaps one is opting for top efficiency. I do not. My character doesn't a apply a single stat point to endurance or strength, insists on traveling everywhere with her horse, will not touch any form of melee weapon/staff/fists and dresses only for fashion. . . so. . . she has no 'efficiency credentials'. Yet, the game is easy enough that high efficiency is not required. She does very, very well.

Buffy is a mystic archer who uses a bow (usually poisoned) as her primary attack. She uses the destruction elemental damage spells primarily for cooking and heating bath water; the only destruction she uses is weakness to poison and drain speed. To her, magic is about utility, and making her a more deadly archer. She therefore tends to rely on illusion the most.

Up close combat? She usually immobilizes her foe with an illusion spell then opens fire with her bow.
Under water? She blocks with her bow and uses an on-touch absorb health spell.