RESPECT THE ENCLAVES AUTHORITAY!

BUT I DONT WANNA DIE... :cryvaultboy:

Yup those damn DEMOCRATIC fascists, all they care about is world domination, they just want to take over the world by killing all the people who would un-doubtedly try and kill them so they can rebuild democracy and civilisation, absolute bastards! How do I change my name because I'm convinced that the Enclave are evil now. Radiation has caused no problems on people's genetics at all, all those people in Vault City experiencing fertility problems and chorosomal damage from a leaking reactor are just wrong, radiation doesn't cause any birth defects and cancer at all so therefore the Enclave are obviously just stupid to think that eugenics of all things could be important for the future of the human race, all they care about is "PURENESS FOR THE MASTER RACE!!! Because they're the continuation fo NAZIS obviously, not a contingency plan developed by the American Government before the war to ensure the survival of the human race.

Nice use of "buzz words" to describe the Enclave, now describe to me why the Enclave are:

• Not the legitimate Government
  
• Fascists
  
• Paramilitary
  
• Deluded Little Boys

Sincerly,

The Enclave

Agreed. That's why I wouldn't, had I been given a choice, have sided with the Enclave.

Don't forget that Eden also asks you to plant an ingredient which would kill off all mutations. Smacks too much of Nazi (what Jara means by "genocide and eugenics-loving, fascist paramilitary", I suspect) thinking for my taste.

And I've seen the bodies of too many innocent wastelanders, murdered by Enclave thugs for their mysterious "scientific" purpses.

Hmmm. That doesn't sound anything like the US government. The fallout us government I mean (I'm not talking politics here).

The Fallout pre-war government had severed all ties with other countries and invaded canada, for energy resources. They hoarded the plasma tech, power armour, all that good [censored]. They didn't help their old european allies during the resource wars. They were fairly isolationist and completely paranoid (only YOU can stop corporate espionage). But yeah you're right. absolutely no similarity between the pre-war government and the enclave at all.

Wow,I've read through this thread at least twice and its quite a lot for a newbee like me to take in.
I,m playing FO3 GTOY and it's my only Fallout experience so I really don,t have an opinion yet.
So far I don't have any bad feelings for the Enclave,so why then everytime I come across some of them,do they try to kill me?
I like their armor better than BOS armor.Is there a way in vanilla fallout to talk to them.
I would like to hear their side of things.

They try to kill you in every encounter. Same with Talon Company. FO3 has very little in the way of being able to talk with factions.

There will be a chance to talk with the Enclave

Bummer!!!!!
Just from reading here I feel there is a lot more to all this that could have been included.Like two parties with the same objectives,but different ideas on how to achieve them.
Maby I will consider getting the game for pc and try out some mods that explore the possibilites.
Thanks.

A great game that allows you to side with Three different major factions and talk and help many smaller ones and an ending were you can gain power. Fallout New Vegas :fallout:

You can talk to every faction but for some hostile powder gangers but there are different groups of them. As well as fiends you can talk to their leader. You can also disguise yourself by wearing a factions outfit/armour but you will be attacked by the enemies of that faction. :fallout:

Naw, I'm pretty sure that NPCs pay no attention to what you are wearing.

So why do the Legion attack if I am wearing NCR armour?

Why does NCR attack if I am wearing Legion armour?

Why does NCR attack if I am wearing BoS armour?

There are other examples.

I wouldn't use that as an argument, since the Enclave itself has done many horrible things to the people it considers its citizens, but I got other reasons for how the Enclave is the best bet for us in rebuilding the Wasteland, especially the East Coast variant.

It doesn't consider the wasteland dross or the Vault Dwellers citizens, the latter to their own detriment of course. So you prefer the "Autumnist" Enclave?

Good that you mentioned Autumn, since he is the one who refers to the people of the wasteland as US citizens, and even Arch Dornan in Fallout 2 simply refers to unarmored Chosen One a "civilian", unlike Enclave's political and scientific leadership who mostly prefer names "mutant" or "near-human". but enough of that.


And yes I definitely support whatever Colonel Autumn has in mind. Richardson, Dr. Curling, J.H. Eden and other top Enclave personnel have always been closed in their ivory towers where planning genocide is far easier as you don't know what's actually going on. But Autumn leads his mission personally and during the course of the game he leaves Raven Rock 3 times, even to such a small mission as to capture the Lone Wanderer in V87.
And what makes him a misunderstood villain for me is how to convincing Autumn to surrender. The only thing you need to do is to prove that Eden's presidency isn't legitimate, or that Eden backstabbed Autumn by relying on the protagonist for support. Which brings another good side of Autumn: he opposed the use of FEV to its bitter end, and Autumn was ready to sacrifice the Enclave's integrity to prevent a mass murder. While at first it seems he is just paving way for Eden to poison everyone, it turns out Autumn wants to control the purifier himself to do the very same thing the Brotherhood is going to: distribute water to the local population and doing so strengthen the Enclave's authority over the region.

Colonel Autumn represents an honest change in the Enclave's ideals, a new wave of thought after a total destruction because of its insane plan to kill everyone but themselves (and from what I understand, not even Enclave personnel are fully immune to Curling's FEV strain). If Bethesda had spent a bit more on letting the player side with the Enclave rather than creating more Brotherhood junk, we would have had an incredible set of character development in the form of a supervillain becoming a possibly overprotective mother bear.

"The American people are worth fighting for. The future must be secured. I won't let you stand in the way of that."
- Colonel Augustus Autumn

The Curling-FEV Strain does not make the distinction between humans and mutants, it just kills and requires a vacination to prevent that, whilst I do like the potential that there was in Autumn as a sypathetic villian-come-hero, it's personal taste really, I would sooner the Enclave just kill everyone and have done with it. The only way for Fallout 3 to even begin to make sense is if Eden's Presidency is legitimate, there was a huge discussion on the subject infact in on the the Enclave related threads, and the whole thing about having the PC deliver the poison is just lazy writing, the player needs moar MORAL CHOICES!!! The Enclave has extermination camps all across the wasteland, Autumn certainly wasn't bothered about them, as were not the soldiers herding them in vans and silos to save flamer fuel, Autumn kills people to make examples and he actually killed the Enclave in Fallout 3 because he didn't have the balls to kill everyone (okay and the developers wanted a huge Raven Rock shoot-out too regardless but...), the Enclave would have won and they would have been saved. He was willing to sacrifice a good deal of the populace letting someone who went all the way through Vault 87 loose in Raven Rock. So he leads from the field, big deal, plenty have before; how dare un-combat trained, politican Richardson not leave the Oil Rig to command from the smaller, less effective Navarro?

Why is it's plan "insane", why do people just say things like "the Enclave are facsists" and "they're insane." Why? What's wrong with the idea that they wipe the slate clean and begin again, from then on, every human being would be born in a safe, clean environment without fear of war or radiation sickness and such. What does the Enclave gain from controlling the region that they wouldn't have done already, if anything, Enclave citizens will die, there resouces will be strained just so Autumn can have a clearer concionce?

In reference to the Military respecting the citizenship and pure-human status of wastelanders:

Enclave Patrolmen

You're an illegal alien on Enclave territory. Proposition 312 orders us to shoot on sight.
Sorry, boy!

He's a mutant spy! Take him out, team!

Die, wasteland scum!

As a loyal soldier of the Enclave, I got orders to kill you. Hope you don't mind.

You! It's your kind that destroyed this once mighty nation. You're gonna pay!

Don't worry, it's only some wasteland bimbo. She won't put up much of a fight.

BoS were part of the US Gov't as well, just army deserters cause they knew what was up.




Right? Haha.

I may get some bashing for this, but here goes anyway.

Attacking a faction that many years earlier used to be a government doesn't = terrorism. Attacking a government still in power doesn't automatically mean it's terrorism either.

The whole Enclave BOS thing is a weird one for me. I often here comments like well if I were part of Autumns Enclave I would make sure we didn't go around murdering people and .... but the Enclave isn't a faction that doesn't do this whether it's Eden or Autumn. I could argue that my BOS would get off it's backside and actually re-build for the benefit of communities and serve to protect them from critters and any hostile faction that might come along.... which might sound exactly like someone elses interpretation of what the ideal Autumn Enclave would be like!

I say compare the factions in the game as they are, un-modded and untouched by personal preference and it appears to me that siding with enclave is more like siding with a faction that relies on terror to meet it's goals (note I am not calling FO3 Enclave terrorists but I am suggesting they are more open to and adopt terrorist practices compared to Elder Lyons BOS). Since this is FO3 forum and I haven't competed a playthrough for FO1&2 I relate to the fallout 3 game only.

They would have had to re-write at least part of the Main Quest to provide the LW with a way to choose to sign up with the Enclave without making it seem you're embracing your father's killers. Probably the best way would have been to have Tranquility Lane end with Braun killing James but before he can kill the LW he/she's rescued by a Enclave raid on Vault 112 led by Autumn. Autumn doesn't trust the LW, but has enough information to know he/she would be useful so a quest to win Autumn's trust begins with various mission that lead to a final mission of being asked to retrieve the GECK from Vault 87. Once the LW has the GECK, he/she either goes to the extraction point (if the LW chooses to be loyal to the Enclave), or tries to escape (rejecting the Enclave and choosing loyalty to Li and the BoS) and is captured like in the normal Vault 87 mission. Either way you end up in Raven Rock, if you chose the Enclave you have the run of the place and eventually are summoned by Eden who tries to recruit you to his plan. After talking to Eden word comes that the BoS have deployed Prime and are marching on the Purifier, and you and Autumn are sent to repel the attack and activate the Purifier. By the time you get there the BoS has overrun the Purifier, once you defeat the BoS and Prime, you go into the Purifier and confront Sarah Lyons in the Control Room and after dealing with her install the FEV (or don't) and activate the Purifier as normal. If you rejected the Enclave, RR and "Take it Back" goes as it does originally.

It would make a lot of work for BS though as you would have four endings to account for

Enclave with FEV
Enclave without FEV
BoS with FEV
BoS without FEV

The BoS endings could be the same, but with the Enclave endings you wake up in RR or the Citadel, now occupied by Autumn and the Enclave troops loyal to him busy fighting Eden and/or the BoS while securing the CW for Autumn's vision for the Enclave. Both Eden and Autumn will turn to you to be thier agent to fight the other. You'll end up deciding who will rule the CW by using the uplink on the crawler to either nuke RR (if you are loyal to Autumn) or the Citadel (if you are loyal to Eden)

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And i'm a freedom fighter

There wouldn't necessarily have to be a civil war between Eden and Autumn. Its apparent when you try to convince Autumn to leave at the end of "Take It Back!" that he is still loyal to Eden, "The chain of command must be upheld". I would guess that had the Enclave been successful at the purifier that Eden and Autumn would have reconciled their differences.

It's a big difference.....Eden wants to use the purifier to exterminate everyone in the Capital Wasteland but the Enclave and residents of Vault 101, Autumn wants to use it as the carrot to get Wastelanders to accept his Enclave-ruled Regime. There is no room for compromise, it's one way or the other. Once he finds out Eden sent the LW to poison the Purifier...assuming the LW tells Autumn like he can tell Lyons...I doubt he'll be in the mood to make up. If the LW doesn't tell him and uses the FEV, Autumn will still figure out what happened eventually...he just may not suspect the LW of having done it. He's genuinely shocked if you tell him at the Purifier and doesn't believe you until you show him the FEV vial....he thought he had talked Eden out of the plan.

Of course, Autumn may have already dealt with Eden while you were unconscious and as the new President tasks the LW with finishing off the EBoS, Regulators, and Outcasts well as bringing the CW settlements into the Enclave one way or another. Maybe he'll even hire Talon Company as extra muscle.