Well just a quick question for people with more knowledge than I. Also did you like that style of leveling (its what made me play epic amounts of the game).

Hmm, well i've never grinded in any before. just do quests at your own level.
I didn't like oblivions leveling, it didn't requre you to level up at all.

You play like you want. if you want to get all your skills to 100 of course you will grind...

I think Todd Howard said this kind of thing will be removed.

I'm sure it will still be somewhat possible, but hopefully they will think of a way to let you improve your skills effectively without having to do this grinding.

They can't prevent grinding in an RPG without great linearity and/or a rigid class system, neither of which Skyrim will suffer from.

Do I think grinding will be required? No; the GI article suggests that leveling will be relatively quick early in a character's progression, and that the expected range of levels is 1-50. Specialising in a small pool of skills ought to remove any need to grind, at least for the purposes of the main quest.

The only possible way grinding could be made impossible is to remove the "you get better at as you do it" skill mechanic. That would kill TES altogether - it's the heart and soul of the way the game is played. So the answer is yes, you'll be able to grind.

The most they can do is discourage it. And as is the case with power-leveling (in previous games) and fast travel, it's not something you HAVE to do.

Power leveling was very much necessary in Oblivion.

That's because the way level scaling worked made it so that even at level one, you could kill most enemies in the game (Though actually, you couldn't complete the main quest without at least reaching level 2, because you need to be able to get at least one Daedric artifact to complete the main quest, and the Daedric quests all had level requirements, the lowest of which was level 2.). In fact, if you focused on non-combat skills, leveling could be a disadvantage, as enemies would keep getting more powerful while you wouldn't, since you only got more skilled in things that aren't part of fighting. But presumably, this will be fixed in Skyrim.

Back on the subject of grinding, though, I really don't see how they could remove that, short of making the game so linear that you never get oportunities to grind. I wouldn't even say grinding is limited to games that use the kind of skill system the Elder Scrolls uses, because level grinding seems to be a pretty common practice in MMORPGs too, just that since these games usually use an experience-based leveling sysrem and the primary source of experience is often combat, level grinding typically meant going to whichever place has enemies that give lots of experience and you can kill, rather than jumping in place repeatedly or swimming against a wall in the river running through Balmora, but while the game can't remove grinding, it can strive to discourage it, or at least, not encourage it, perhaps the new leveling system will make grinding a less popular tactic, and perhaps not, we shall see, I guess.



Lots of players seem to get by just fine without doing it, sure, their characters might be weaker that way, but they could still get by, unless you define "power leveling" as anything that's not intentionally handycapping your character.

I'm sure you'll be able too if you want... but with the leveling system being less strict I don't think you'll really HAVE to anymore.

Power leveling? Not at all necessary. Now micromanagement to get +5 into 3 attributes every time you level so you aren't destroyed at high levels, that was necessary.

There are ways to reduce grinding and the need for grinding at the same time.

For example, the best way I can think of is diminishing returns on skill use. The game keeps track of how you use your skills so if you haven't used a skill in a while you get a much bigger bonus for using it than if you just sit there pushing a button over and over.

Then there are specific ways to improve leveling. Make all combat skills level up significantly faster when in combat with foes of higher level, I remember standing there for 10 minutes letting a rat bite me to level up my armor. Make restoration give you more experience when you're actually badly hurt. Make all spells give more experience the more powerful spell you cast rather than just the same amount for every casting. Only let you level up mercantile or speech once per NPC per day.

Before anyone jumps in with "It's a single player RPG let me grind if I want" it would still be possible to grind out levels, it would be a bit slower than oblivion perhaps. But what this would do is let people who don't want to grind still advance in levels relatively quickly.

The real reason to grind in OB was the +5 skill increases. Without that, I can't see why most people wouldn't just explore and use their skills as nature intended.

Which is why it's good if the attributes governing everything is gone in Skyrim. People will be free to do what they want rather than uselessly worry about their characters stats all the time, and try to grind for the +5's.

I didn't grind Instead I just jumped to where I wanted to go instead of running

Yes, MasterrSamson88. Thus Beth may have come from a really clumsy leveling system that holds back a great game to an elegant leveling system that improves the game it's within!

That's what he said about Oblivion. Seriously, I distinctly remember a discussion where someone asked if jumping around all over the place would be a viable way to level your acrobatics and he said no. He even mentioned that someone playtesting was doing just that and it wasn't working out.

Ugh... no. Grinding for +5 skill increases was one of the worst things about Oblivion. Thank Jebus that is gone.

The only skill that was really annoying in Morrowind and Oblivion to grind was acrobatics. Really stupid, it didn't require you to battle any creatures or anything. You could just jump as many times as possible up the ramps of Vivec city.

I just jumped a lot in Morrowind and easily reached an acrobatics skill of 90+
No grinding involved. :shrug:

In Oblivion it was hell though...

They also made every skill count towards level up, and gave you a real big incentive in the form of perks to get that next level, so people will be grinding to get all those unused skills up. Higher skills across the board means more health, stamina, magicka and perks. Getting rid of attributes didn't remove grinding because you are still rewarded for maxing out, even more than on previous games, in my opinion.

I suspect grinding will be a part of alchemy.
To make the flour, to raise the bread.

But you can either level by standing in one spot re-casting life detect or go exploring and use whatever skills you use. Now there isn't any direct benefit to doing one or the other. As fun as it was to cast life detect on myself 200 times while trying not to level blade, armorer, or alchemy (my majors) I'm really looking forward to not having to worry about +5. There will be way less grinding then before.

I will no longer have to let mud crabs beat me for a 1/2 hour or more for each of the first 16 levels in order to get the best character possible.


It's a massive *beeping improvement!!!!!!!!!!!! :celebration:

There will be grinding if you want there to be. It just won't be strictly necessary.

No +5 to attributes grinding, but possibly Radiant grinding.