fallout had, the BEST lockpicking system compared to morrowind and oblivion. if you havent played fallout 3/nv. its basicaly a minigame in which you have to get the correct angle to put the lockpick in and then rotate the lock. if you dont get the right angle the pick will vibrate and if you dont stop rotating quick enough you break a pick. you have to use trial and error. the closer you get too the correct angle the more you can turn the lock without it starting to vibrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un7X0FXSdpI&feature=related - a simpler way to explain things

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lockpicking


as for how skill comes into play- your skill allows for a wider area to position your pin correctly. for example if you had 100 lockpick (or sneak if it gets merged <_< ) and the lockpick was level 15- you pretty much wouldent need to move the pin and only have to rotate the lock. however if the lock was level 75, and your lockpicking skill was 75, you would have to be correct within a degree. if the lock was level 75, and your skill was level 74, the game wouldent even let you attempt because of there being no acceptable angle to put your pin.

however- multiple minigames would be very nice.


but, even with minigames- the old morrowind idea of better lockpicks should be thrown in to assist the player in harder locks. (apprentice,journeyman,expert,master and grandmaster) (but we do NOT need the skeleton key again, that thing just made lockpicking pointless)
perhaps if there were different lockpicks then there could be a much larger gap for lock levels (instead of 1-100, we could have 1-225)(aprentice could offer a 25 bonus to lockpicking, a master 100 bonus points, and a grandmaster 125)

lockpicking should run in real time. if the player thinks they will get attacked whilst lockpicking, it would be tactical to summon something to cover them


sneaking

if an npc knows the player is invisible, they should try swinging around if they are doing well. if they are scared they should probably run/jump around nervously. if they have spells like detect life they should use that, and if they have a good sense of smell they should be able to attack easily, although be a little confused

every mellee weapon (including fists) should be able to do sneak attacks.

there should be spells that dont make a stupid light on you. the player should be able to make spells that use more magika but dont give away the players location.

we need....
spells to make the area darker (and that would also really cripple moral)
spells to make the player walk on WALLS
spells to create sound (anywhere the player wants, to distract the enemy)
spells to make an enemy silent (so they cannot scream for comrades)
spells to blind an enemy
spells to make an enemy feel sick
spells to make the enemy see things
spells to stop smells (so that monsters dont snif the player out)
spells that allow the player to pick locks whilst being far away, however- this should make the minigame harder


also- animals should be able to smell the player. water should help camouflage the player (both in and out). people should have many different reactions to the player sneaking around- from getting more scared to more angry.
wearing certain armour should also effect the players ability to sneak. some heavier armour should make noise

Many of those stealth spells should just be poisons. Blind, hallucinations, sleep, etc

Helps divide the line between spells and potions.

I don't want Oblivion's mini-game for lockpicking. It was very bad.
Fallout 3's was okay.
Morrowind's was okay.

I'm hoping for something completely new. But I wouldn't cry if it was Fallout 3's or Morrowinds. I would cry though if it was Oblivion's.

Edit: Also water shouldn't aid in camoflauge, unless you're completely still. If you move, water should be a stealth disadvantage

I don't agree with stealth spells. Those sound great for illusion, but no stealth spells.

Cool ideas for spells, might be overpowered though. I organized them in schools.

Illusion spells
spells to make the area darker (and that would also really cripple moral)
spells to create sound (anywhere the player wants, to distract the enemy) (Sound spell. It was used to disturb magicans in Morrowind, but if there is no chance of failing at spellcasting it could be used to as a distraction spell in Skyrim instead)
spells to make an enemy silent (so they cannot scream for comrades) (could be an additional effect to the normal silence spell)
spells to blind an enemy (Morrowind had this, I hope to get it back.)
spells to make an enemy feel sick
spells to make the enemy see things
spells to stop smells (so that monsters dont snif the player out)

Alteration spells
spells to make the player walk on WALLS
spells that allow the player to pick locks whilst being far away, however- this should make the minigame harder (this spell is basically the same as telekinesis)

:facepalm: they would be illusion, except maybe one or two. wall walking would be alteration for instance

When you're at the surface yes, but more than a few feet underwater you should get a big bonus imo.

And I want wall walking!

Fallout's system looks like it's better than Oblivion's and Morrowind's.

I would prefer it if lockpicking was more like in Morrowind/FO3 where your lockpick skill determines the lock level you can open. So with a lockpick skill of 35 you could open any lock level up to and including 35 but no higher.

If course, that would only determine what lock level you are allowed to try and open, so you'd still have the minigame.

What I hated about Oblivion's lockpicking was that once you got the hang of the minigame, you could basically open any lock at any level. With a few lockpicks and a few tries you could open a very hard lock at level 1. Something that you couldn't do in either Morrowind and Fallout.

Another thing they could do is make lock picks hard to find or buy.

No it did not.


The reason I don't like Fallout's lockpicking system, or Oblivion's for that matter is the lack of lock levels. Very Easy (Skill 0+), Easy (Skill 25+), Average (Skill 50+), Hard (Skill 75+), Very Hard (Skill 100).
Morrowind had lock levels from 1 to 100, and you could attempt at any lock at any time. The game used a dice roll to calculate your success or failure. Lockpicking was also in real time.


I like the different lockpicks from Morowind, I don't know if the rest of that's a good idea or not, but I guess it makes sense.


I liked Morrowind's way, without a minigame.
If a minigame was to be implemented though, it should be in real time. I'd like to see my character pick the lock, while having the minigame in one of the corners of the screen or something. Also, it should have lock levels, and as long as the lock level is not more that X(depending on your lockpick?) levels above your skill you should be able to pick it.

I'm not so sure about a sound spell. I'd like it if you could pick up a rock or similar object and throw it in some direction. Animals will be atracted to the sound of the rock, while humans and other smarter NPCs have a chance of detecting you instead depending on your sneak skill. This would be very usefull for setting off traps and getting rid of tough enemies without having to fight them.

Although lock-picks should not stop time, I think they should slow time down. Reason being, the movements aren't exactly intuitive.

Nor can you actually feel the tension in the pick.

I'd prefer no mini-games whatsoever. Lockpicking similar to Morrowind's or Zumb's mod for Oblivion would be ideal. Some, at least, of the spell ideas would be better implemented as stealth-oriented perks.

Mind you that they stole this from the Thief series.

What if:

Someone were to make a minigame that was real-time, player controlled, and was otherwise required you to manipulate pins on a finer scale than Oblivion did? It's been done. The primary drawback to a direct copy of that system is that the game in question had no character skill at all...

So... what would you think of using the Mafia II system, if character skill governed how large of a sweet spot the pins had and how fast they moved?

I did prefer Fallouts lockpicking system to Oblivions, which was terrible to be honest and after you get the Skeleton Key... pointless.

but then its based off luck, and i personally find that boring. i prefer my skill at the minigame to come into it. the locking picking skill level should definetly play a large part, but just a dice roll is boring.

i think it should be similar to fallout 3 system, combined with morrowinds lock levels from 1-100. the OP suggested this "as for how skill comes into play- your skill allows for a wider area to position your pin correctly. for example if you had 100 lockpick (or sneak if it gets merged ) and the lockpick was level 15- you pretty much wouldent need to move the pin and only have to rotate the lock. however if the lock was level 75, and your lockpicking skill was 75, you would have to be correct within a degree."
thats quite a good idea. however you should be allowed to attempt any lock at any level. the catch is, lets say you were level 1 lock picking and you attempted a level 50 lock. if you have the pin anywhere but the right angle it would break almost instantly. the closer your level is to the level of the lock, the farther you can twist before the pin breaks. once you overtake the level of the lock, its starts widening the area to position your pin correctly.

yeh, i dont want something based purely on luck and level, i want some of my skill (as in how good i am at the minigame) to come into it too.

I prefer a mingame for the lockpicking but also have it rely on your skills/stats. You should not be able to attempt any lock at any skill level. I do not think it should be like Fallout 3 though because locks were built different back then and the way Fallout 3 did it just does not fit with the times. The locks in Oblivion were more like the locks during that time.

Oblivion's lockpicking was a ton more accurate (except for picks breaking after one use) as to how lockpicking actually works, but Fallout's style was a lot more fun. Perhaps we could mix that and Fallout and make it more player controlled, like you have to slowly lift the pin upwards and then turn the tension wrench to keep the pin in place, then move to the next one etc.

i voted for all, except i want a'lot of lock variety. never the same lock type and never the same minigame.
i also want to be able to break a lock with a weapon if it is weak enough, but that would draw attention to me if people were in earshot.
i want trapped locks to make a comeback.
and i want magic alarms on doors that you have to disable somewhere in the room before you try to pick it.
i want a grandmaster to have a vault-cracking ability that has the hardest minigame.

Wall/ceiling walk would be AMAZING for the stealthy archer.

much much more shadow manipulation. shadows need to play a special part in the tes world.
in the past we have had many factions that acted in the dark. so more immersive shadowplay would be key in my shadow-mage's arsenal.

Instead of spells I'd rather let thieves throw rocks and provide them with other means of creating distractions or putting out lights (Thieves Arsenal in OB for example or the Thief game series). Spells is more like a mage thing.

I agree. I think we need more depth with poisoning. Should be able to make a contact poison and dab it on a doorknob and things like that...

I am happy that none of you are developing Skyrim because then I'd know I know it would svck. Most of these last couple suggestions are stupid and not though out. I say just throw out the security skill and keep the mini game. One less skill to worry about. And besides, its not like Bethesda not used to doing away with frivolous skills.