anolysis of the Races of TES : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:11 pm

My last post on the subject of the races of TES went a little sour, mostly due to my inability to take a joke. Anyway, I apologize if you posted on my last thread and I took it the wrong way.

Anyway, this topic is meant to dissect the qualities of the ethnicities and cultures of the elder scrolls and attempt to compare and contrast them to certain cultures. In particular, I will make a listing of races that seem to share the qualities of distinctive cultures that can be found around the world.

This is done so that we will have a better understanding of the TES races, their culture, as well as where Bethesda may have acquired their inspirations from.

Here is the list:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Altmer - Not much has been revealed about them other than the fact that they hail from a tropical island known as the Summerset Isles. They have an affinity for magic and they are very scholarly. While having golden skin and being rather tall, I could not point them towards any race specifically.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ayleids - While they no longer associate themselves socially, whether due to extinction or by the simple choice of avoiding cultural assimilation, there are records of their appearances and their culture as well as ruins of their former dwellings and structures, providing us with an almost complete of idea of their architectural style. Racially, in terms of looks, they are recorded to have a skin coloration that is darker than the Altmer, but lighter than the Dunmer. This could indicate that they have a tannish or olive skin tone, similar to that of the Bosmer of Valenwood. This record would be accurate as, due to Cyrodiil being a subtropical heartland, darker skin would prove to be a useful adaptation. Tropical and sub-tropical regions are usually located towards equatorial regions and they recieve more sunlight.

As for their culture, they lived in tribal packs that typically lived separately and sparsely across Cyrodiil, establishing city-states.

Architecturally, the Ayleids build large structures from white stone, which often have a subterranean interior. Most of their structures, while being made of stone, have crystals, known as Welkynd stones, that serve as both a source of light, like that of a torch, as well as a power source for their cities, with the greater cities having larger and grander crystals. These crystals are usually located at the heart of the Ayleid dwellings. Much of cyrodiilic human culture has adopted this architecture, as an example, most of the Imperial City has adopted their architecture, with most buildings being made of the white stone that the Ayleids used.

In conclusion, I believe that a lot of their culture has been inspired by the Greek culture. The stone buildings and the grandeur of their ruins, as well as the cultural city states that they lived in. Their skin tone may have even been borrowed from Grecian ethnicity, but that could just be coincidental.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer - Being a proud race, they are often traditional in culture and custom. However, with the exception of the Cyrodiilic Empire, they have adopted many of their customs. They are an elven race, who followed the prophet Veloth to Morrowind after separating from other Aldmeri society due to the Dunmers' (at the time known as the Chimer) choice to worship the Daedra. They have dark gray skin, with deep red eyes, the color of the ash that surrounds Red Mountain.

Culturally, they are divided, and within those divisions, there are even more divisions. One spectrum of Dunmer culture is comprised of political houses that battle constantly with each other in order achieve to political and economic superiority. While there were originally six Great Houses, there are now only 5, with only three of taking interest in Vvardenfell. Those 5 houses are House Redoran, House Hlaalu, House Telvanni, House Indoril, and House Dres. More information about the great houses can be found here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/great_houses_of_morrowind.shtml
On the other side of Dunmer culture, you have the 4 major Ashlander tribes: the Urshilaku, the Ahemmusa, the Erabenimsun, and the Zainab.
This excerpt describes the social order of the Ashlanders:

The Ashlander society is comprised of nomadic camps which have portable huts of hides stretched on chitin frames which can be quickly dismantled and packed atop a guar when moving to new hunting grounds and grazing grounds for their guar and shalk. The ashkhan of the tribe has a much larger yurt, though the khan's hut is simply a larger, more elaborate version of a family hut. Some particular qualities exclusive to these Ashlander camps include reed wind chimes, seemingly organic lanterns of various colors as well as decorative bug bowls.

Leaders in Ashlander society are known as 'khans', the chief khan being the Ashkhan. The Ashkhan is the greatest champion of the Ashlanders and serves as the chief and war leader of the tribe, as well as being the Warrior-Protector of the tribe's Ancestor cult.

Below the Ashkhan of the tribe is the Farseer. The Farseer is the wise woman or shaman of the tribe who gives counsel to the Ashkhan through arcane wisdom and prophecy; the wise woman or shaman is also known as the Oracle-Seer of the tribe's Ancestor cult. During times when there is no Ashkhan and no Gulakhan there to become Ashkhan, a strong Farseer may take the position of Ashkhan for themself and take on the leadership of the tribe.

Below the Farseers in Ashlander society are the Gulakhans. The Gulakhans serve as the chief warriors and champions of the tribe, protecting the honor of the tribe in peace and war. Apart from this they also give counsel to the Ashkhan in tribal affairs, and represent the tribe to guests and intruders.

Below the Gulakhan is the Champion of the tribe, who has much of the same role as the Gulakhan. The ranks after the Champion follow as Guide, Clanholder, Initiate, Brother, Hearthfriend, and Clanfriend. Sometimes outlanders can be adopted into the tribe as a Clanfriend, but the trust of the tribe must first be won.

The majority of Ashlanders serve the tribe as scouts, herders or hunters, with each tribe also having a healer. As the Ashlanders are nomadic, the herds must be looked after and food must be hunted, but the herders and hunters are also charged with guarding the treasures of the land that nourish the Ashlanders and make them strong.

More information about Ashlander culture can be found here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/luagararticle2.shtml
Dunmer Urban architecture is summarized by this quote:

Dunmer towns are typically organized around a dominant central feature, either the ? Temple or the grand manor residences of the ? Great House ? nobles. Urban Temple compounds feature high-walled outer courtyards, with smaller shelters and halls clustered around the Temple ? Shrine itself. Aristocratic residences of the Great Houses are similar to Temple compounds with walled outer courts and outbuildings for craftsmen and servants, dominated by a grand manor residence in place of the Temple Shrine. Simple multi-storied public and commercial buildings -- tradehouses, craftguilds, and such -- are usually rectangular in floor plan, built from local materials, featuring organic curves with decorated exteriors. More modest one-story private dwellings follow the same plan, except with less decoration.

In conclusion, I believe that the Dunmer are made up of a mixture of several different cultures, the most prominent being Aztec, Mongolian, and Egyptian. Most of the Great House structures appear to be styled after Aztec pyramids. However, The pyramid structures and the use of the scarab-looking shalk, which are displayed on banners, seem somewhat Egyptian as well. Yurts are Mongolian Tents that were often used by a wide range of mongolian peoples; those people ranged from simple nomadic hunters and farmers to soldiers and Khans. These tents would suit the nomadic Ashladners very well. Also, the word choice of Khan for their tribal chief is a title meaning leader in Turkic, Bulgar, and Mongolian.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer - The Bosmer are the stereotypical wood elves who dwell in the forests of Valenwood and revere both nature and animal. There only real distinctions in the TES universe in their creation origin, their height, their culture, and their tendancy to get on the nerves of others. Other than that, they seem to be similar to the universal wood elves that fill fanatasy novels and games. Because they are so universal, I could not begin to dissect them. I only know that their language, and all the elven languages, sound a little bit like Hebrew.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dwemer - While it could be correct to call them "Dwarves", they are most certainly not the stereotypical small folk that are apart of almost every fantasy universe. They are actually an elven race who followed laws of logic and reasoning, and devoted themselves to the sciences of the arcane and engineering. Dwemer had a very high aptitude for enchanting and many of their artifacts are prized for them. While they do wear beards, the look more elven, and have the stature to match too.

While I believe that they are culturally unidentafiable, I believe that they look look somewhat Mesopotamian, both in dress and racial appearances.

See Link for Dwemer Concept Art:
http://www.uesp.net/w/images/MW-art-Dwemer-Concept.jpg

I'll be back to post more later. Next log is for the TES Race of Men. :lightbulb:

EDIT: Due to certain problems, I will be repeatedly editing the links. Please forgive any problems. Thank you.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:16 pm

The thing about the Ayleids is that if the "rumour" that Umbacano and Mankor Camoran have very strong Ayleid heritage, then their colouring is less likely to be olive-skinned than more a sort of golden brown. They also have very brown hair (typically).

I've heard other people say that the Dunmeri culture is influenced in real life by Mongolian culture, though the shamanic tribal hierarchies put me in mind - not that I know much about it - of Native American traditions.

You missed out that the Bosmer are ritual cannibals, who eat the flesh of their fallen foes. They're probably a little closer to the Warhammer Dark Elves than the Dunmer are. Their culture revolves around nature - they only use the wood from dead trees and fallen branches and will not cut down living trees.

The Dwemer are the Deep Elves - so Tolkeinesque in their subterranean structures, but as you say, are comparable to humans and Altmer in height. You can see a lot of their art in Morrowind. Their culture is very 'steampunk' - robots, some sort of electric (I call it 'thaumoenergetic' in my mods) power, lots of steam and hydraulics. They're more apparently technologically advanced than any other Tamrielic race.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:44 pm

In conclusion, I believe that the Dunmer are made up of a mixture of several different cultures, the most prominent being Aztec, Mongolian, and Egyptian.

Aztec? I don't really see it. Because of step pyramids? Egyptians had those too, but the more likely candidate is Mesopotamian, what with their similarity to ziggurats, and the precedent of the http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/~Music/Nabucco.files/hanging_gardens.jpg, which had watered terraces, as well as the already Mesopotamian-sounding names for people and old forts.

The thing about the Ayleids is that if the "rumour" that Umbacano and Mankor Camoran have very strong Ayleid heritage, then their colouring is less likely to be olive-skinned than more a sort of golden brown. They also have very brown hair (typically).

I've heard other people say that the Dunmeri culture is influenced in real life by Mongolian culture, though the shamanic tribal hierarchies put me in mind - not that I know much about it - of Native American traditions.

The Mongolians had a comparable shamanic, animistic belief system. I think only traces remain in their flavour of Buddhism, and maybe a few rituals, like the striking violin ceremony in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Weeping_Camel (a documentary I'd recommend to anyone). Other Turkic peoples still practice it, though.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:10 pm

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer - The Bosmer are the stereotypical wood elves who dwell in the forests of Valenwood and revere both nature and animal. There only real distinctions in the TES universe in their creation origin, their height, their culture, and their tendancy to get on the nerves of others. Other than that, they seem to be similar to the universal wood elves that fill fanatasy novels and games. Because they are so universal, I could not begin to dissect them. I only know that their language, and all the elven languages, sound a little bit like Hebrew.

Hehe.. If the only distinctions from stereotypical Wood Elves is the creation origin, height and culture, then what makes them stereotype? Bows?

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:28 pm

Hehe.. If the only distinctions from stereotypical Wood Elves is the creation origin, height and culture, then what makes them stereotype? Bows?

Lol. I wondered about posting that statement. However, their whole reverence towards nature is the stereotype I'm talking about.

Aztec? I don't really see it. Because of step pyramids? Egyptians had those too, but the more likely candidate is Mesopotamian, what with their similarity to ziggurats, and the precedent of the Hanging Gardens, which had watered terraces, as well as the already Mesopotamian-sounding names for people and old forts.

While that is arguably correct, I see more of a correlation between Aztec pyramids and the Dunmer structures. The steps and the rectangular design point are something the Aztecs had alot of in their architectural style, which is most prominently displayed in the ancient Dunmer strongholds. However, if you were to look at color scheme, then the pyramids would be more along the lines of Bablyonian, mainly Vivec, which shares both characteristics of both cultures.

See the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mexico_xochicalco_pyramids.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mexico.Pue.Cholula.Pyramid.01.jpg
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Phittte/RotheranFinal.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/idzt/Morroblivion/Oblivion2008-05-2023-36-42-54.jpg

To me, the greatest explanation for this pattern of architecture, to me, means that their Dunmer ancestors (Chimer or otherwise) may have used Aztec styles in their buildings, but, as time went on, they adopted a similiar, yet different structure, closer to that of Babylonian and Egyptian. Their architecture changed, whether due to a sort of Renassiance or a simple desire to beautify their structures. Either way, good eye.

The Mongolians had a comparable shamanic, animistic belief system. I think only traces remain in their flavour of Buddhism, and maybe a few rituals, like the striking violin ceremony in The Story of the Weeping Camel (a documentary I'd recommend to anyone). Other Turkic peoples still practice it, though.

I'll have to give it a read then.

The thing about the Ayleids is that if the "rumour" that Umbacano and Mankor Camoran have very strong Ayleid heritage, then their colouring is less likely to be olive-skinned than more a sort of golden brown. They also have very brown hair (typically).

Still, the fact remains that their culture seems to be parallel to the fall of the Greeks. It's even more so considering that the Imperial City adopted much of their architecture, either building on top of their ruins or living in their actual structures.

Where exactly is the record for Ayleid appearance? I'm not arguing how they look, I just can't remember what document I read about them in. It must be an account.

I've heard other people say that the Dunmeri culture is influenced in real life by Mongolian culture, though the shamanic tribal hierarchies put me in mind - not that I know much about it - of Native American traditions.

I agree. That's why I believe I can closely link them towards Aztec traditions and culture.

You missed out that the Bosmer are ritual cannibals, who eat the flesh of their fallen foes. They're probably a little closer to the Warhammer Dark Elves than the Dunmer are. Their culture revolves around nature - they only use the wood from dead trees and fallen branches and will not cut down living trees.

Yes I did didn't I? What's interestng is that the cannibalistic custom seems to trace its roots back to certain African and Native American tribes, who ate their enemies in the belief that doing so would grant them the knowledge and power of the enemy they consume. Thanks for pointing that out.

The Dwemer are the Deep Elves - so Tolkeinesque in their subterranean structures, but as you say, are comparable to humans and Altmer in height. You can see a lot of their art in Morrowind. Their culture is very 'steampunk' - robots, some sort of electric (I call it 'thaumoenergetic' in my mods) power, lots of steam and hydraulics. They're more apparently technologically advanced than any other Tamrielic race.

Will you give me a link to those mods? You've caught my curiosity.

Humans will be coming soon.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:32 pm

The Dwemer are the Deep Elves - so Tolkeinesque in their subterranean structures, but as you say, are comparable to humans and Altmer in height. You can see a lot of their art in Morrowind. Their culture is very 'steampunk' - robots, some sort of electric (I call it 'thaumoenergetic' in my mods) power, lots of steam and hydraulics. They're more apparently technologically advanced than any other Tamrielic race.

What, apart from that they have the nickname 'dwarves' and live underground (and even then they still have towers), is remotely Tolkienesque about the Dwemer?

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:16 pm

What, apart from that they have the nickname 'dwarves' and live underground (and even then they still have towers), is remotely Tolkienesque about the Dwemer?

Their industrial nature perhaps?

Correct me if im wrong but wherent the Dwemer closely related to the Altemer? some form of seperate faction if you will.. (or maybe i'm thinking of the chimer + Altmer) but if i am right.. would that not explain the Dwemers subterenean settlements? The Altemer have them yet theyre not descriped as Tolkienesque.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:14 pm

You missed out that the Bosmer are ritual cannibals, who eat the flesh of their fallen foes. They're probably a little closer to the Warhammer Dark Elves than the Dunmer are. Their culture revolves around nature - they only use the wood from dead trees and fallen branches and will not cut down living trees.

I dunno. I don't see the bosmer being a split sect of high elves who left their homeland due to, what they think, their king should be the rightful ruler. And when they moved, they warship the bloody handed god, a god the high elves don't worship, they subjugate and enslave every other race they can get their hands on, they constantly backstab each other, have pleasure cults scattered around devoted to the chaos god Slaanesh (even though it is illegal), have nights where the brides of their wargod kidnap children and people and throw them in a giant cauldron of blood to bath in and restore their beauty and a sacrifice to that god, and have a mommy's boy king, who is also one of the most powerful being in said universe.

I have a feeling the bosmer are more like warhammer wood elves, who would kill you right away just for stepping into their woods, let alone do anything to the plant life.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:38 pm

It's the chimers/dunmers who were religious dissenters from the mainstream altmers (or was it aldmer at that time ?). The dwemers seemed to result from an earlier splitting.

Back to the dwemers, the yseems to owe quite a bit to the the dwarves of the nordic mythology : living underground, and capable of crafting magical objects nobody else could do - to such a point that even the gods turned to them when they wanted some fancy gizmo. And also the fact that somebody tampering with their items tended to end up with some really nasty curse on his head. These guys were serious about intellectual property

» Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:43 am

What, apart from that they have the nickname 'dwarves' and live underground (and even then they still have towers), is remotely Tolkienesque about the Dwemer?

I'd say it's another appealing anology, though.

Hairy, reclusive, industrious, greedy. Race's whose names begin with "Dw". If Bethesda didn't want to invoke dwarvenesque imagery of any flavour, they wouldnt have use "Dw" to name them, or and endow with such staple Dwarven behaviour such as living underground.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:23 am

I'll admit I'm as knowledgeable as some other posters here on the subject of LOTR, but the relation to Tolkien Dwarves seems rather miniscule. So miniscule to the point of it being overlooked.

» Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:11 am

Their industrial nature perhaps?

Correct me if im wrong but wherent the Dwemer closely related to the Altemer? some form of seperate faction if you will.. (or maybe i'm thinking of the chimer + Altmer) but if i am right.. would that not explain the Dwemers subterenean settlements? The Altemer have them yet theyre not descriped as Tolkienesque.

See http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Dwemer.

That should explain it to you.

I dunno. I don't see the bosmer being a split sect of high elves who left their homeland due to, what they think, their king should be the rightful ruler. And when they moved, they warship the bloody handed god, a god the high elves don't worship, they subjugate and enslave every other race they can get their hands on, they constantly backstab each other, have pleasure cults scattered around devoted to the chaos god Slaanesh (even though it is illegal), have nights where the brides of their wargod kidnap children and people and throw them in a giant cauldron of blood to bath in and restore their beauty and a sacrifice to that god, and have a mommy's boy king, who is also one of the most powerful being in said universe.

I have a feeling the bosmer are more like warhammer wood elves, who would kill you right away just for stepping into their woods, let alone do anything to the plant life.

I believe princess_stomper is right. The Bosmer discarded their Aldmeri high culture to embrace a romantic and simple lifestyle, preferring to be in tune with nature. Due to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Green_Pact#Green_Pact, the Bosmer are religiously carnivorous and cannabalistic, and they often are in political conflict with the other provinces.

Any more information about the Bosmer can be found http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Bosmer.

I would also like to remind everyone that this topic is devoted to exploring the connections between the real life cultures and ethnicities, and the TES cultures and ethnicities. While I encourage you to dissect and discuss the cultures of the TES universe, I only ask that it be done so within the context of this topic.

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm

I would love if some of the writers would chime in on this fascinating subject.

The adoption of the race lore? Well, its always been the majority rule on what is most romantic, methodical,
or just plain luring,... to the fans, or just a handful of Bethesda geeks. (No offense, thats an admirable
statement.) Either way I love the depth of this stuff. I have to stop and remind myself sometimes that
its all unfortunately just fiction. I hated real history as a school boy but find TES so attractive. I'm more
of a visual person so I would just love to see an on going series of movies of TES. Now thats fantasy...

» Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:26 am

I would love if some of the writers would chime in on this fascinating subject.

The adoption of the race lore? Well, its always been the majority rule on what is most romantic, methodical,
or just plain luring,... to the fans, or just a handful of Bethesda geeks. (No offense, thats an admirable
statement.) Either way I love the depth of this stuff. I have to stop and remind myself sometimes that
its all unfortunately just fiction. I hated real history as a school boy but find TES so attractive. I'm more
of a visual person so I would just love to see an on going series of movies of TES. Now thats fantasy...

Indeed.

I just realized that I forgot the Orcs in my Elven sections. Darn. I'll have to post it with the Humans then.

EDIT: I have just finished writing about the Orcs, the Bretons, and the Nords, and will begin to collect information on the Imperials, the Redguard, and possibly the Nede.