If it's still under review, read this whole thread but dont discuss Nexus policy on here anymore. Seems like that party is over (in this thread).
edit- theres also a link to a mirror of this patch v0.05 somewhere in this thread

This isn't (just) about Nexus policy; this is something that affects the entire community.

My point isn't that it should be acceptable to be rude or that you should be apathetic about when people inevitably are. My point is that asking permission, except when actual assets are involved, is a courtesy; it is not any kind of legal requirement. Anyone asserting any kind of "ownership" or rights over work created with the G.E.C.K. is breaking the EULA. My comment about Nexus staff possibly getting into hot water stems from this, and isn't silly at all. Only Bethesda have the right to assert rights; all it would take would be for a lawyer to decide that the existence of the Nexus' permissions widget was diluting their claim to rights in some way.

There will always be random users who will do what they want; you can't do anything about it and it is a waste of time to try. You shouldn't let the inevitable actions of jerks be the defining characteristic of your interactions with the community, however. Ideally, we should all treat each other with the assumption that the other guy is not a jerk! Jerkery will still happen, and in the case of more serious jerkery - where someone is publicly claiming credit for someone else's work or where actual asset plagiarism has taken place, I'm sure the hosting sites and community boards will continue to be as responsive as they have always been - that's when the file-hosting sites taking down files is exactly the right thing to do.

I think we are misunderstanding each other and fundamentally agree, ripple. What you describe is not what is happening here. In this case the Nexus is dictating a set of rules, not "the community". That the Nexus' ruleset is being interpreted as the de facto rules of the community is something that I find very disturbing. I worry that we are discouraging people from modding for fear of treading on the toes of other modders, and that the overall sense that "you should seek permission before using someone else's copyrighted material in your mod" has become "you can't release a mod that touches the same record as any other previously existing mod without explicit permission", which is completely insane.

Read the thread and your question will be answered.

Nexus rule isn't about ownership. It's about being able to post your mod on the Nexus sites, which they have total control over. Bethesda has no right to interfere with their policies unless those policies break Bethesda's rules and in this case the Nexus rules are more restrictive than Bethesda's rules. So Beth has no interest in it at all.

Yes Kal Choedan i almost completely agree with you that giving credit for a fix in a compilation is a courtesy, and nothing more. Especially with bug fixes it means that (on Nexus) the first one to make a fix has ALL the permissions for that fix and anything that uses that fix. Basically it means that if someone else would unknowingly make the same fix, or make the old one better, they could get it removed because someone else was first. This clearly shows there is no copyright involved in fixes at all (and why should there be anyway).
But there was talk about this extensively and the mods dont like us doing it again.

edit- Beth HAS interest in those rules, because every mod is owned by Beth, and Beth's rules state that anyone can use them freely. Disallowing people to use an already existing mod might disagree with the policies that state that all mods can be used freely. So i think there is a valid point in that. But i also think that Beth will not break a sweat about this and leave it as it is.

:banghead:

Go look again on Identical Mods. There are multiple mods on Nexus that DO THE EXACT SAME THING. Do you really think all those slower XP mods are completely different? There's only two ways to slow XP in the game, either change a global or add invisible perks. There are several fixes for cards not going into your deck, etc, etc. The point is, there are mods that do the same thing and co-exist on the Nexus.

If Zenball had just been a thief and made this patch, then no one would be the wiser for most of the fixes. The fact he is going about it the right way is a GOOD thing.

It's a Nexus policy, one which has been in place since the site was started. If you want to include someone elses work in your compilation and/or re-release someone elses work TO THE NEXUS you need to get permission and credit them.

As for Copywrite, yes, Bethesda technically owns things that are created through the GECK. It would get sticky with some of the new textures/meshes/etc. But it's always been a grey area and it's one the community has thrived in despite the grey area. No need to rock the boat. There are other mod sites if the policies bother people that much.

EDIT to your Edit - Yes, Bethesda has stated the mods must be released Freely.. as in at no cost to the user. You can't charge money for, or make a profit from them. IT doesn't mean freely in that there can be no other restrictions.

@'Kal Choedan'
The new policy on Nexus was a reaction of the jerks who made ports of FO3 mods with no permission of the original authors. Mostly these where armor meshes which are easily to port but hard to make. The idea wasn't to give a copyright to single records but to keep the community alive.
Zens fault simply was to state that he doesn't care about permissions in the description of his mod in this delicate situation. Which would the jerks who 'port' the works of others give a free pass.

I agree with ripple that simple patches are not needed to ask for. You could do it easily yourself. But I think the nexus did the right move to keep the modding that includes more then simple house mods or patches alive.

I said 'it could be removed'. Not that it would be removed. It should be removed if anyone complains... If the author of the first XP mod set to no permissions would complain about there existing one of the same XP mods and Nexus doesnt do anything, that would just mean they dont enforce their own rules. It would also mean that I could copy a (relatively easy) fix and claim that I made it myself Zenball could use it in the compilation.

@ poster before
But now the consequence is not that he removes that statement but that they want to see explicit permissions from everyone, leaving the popular patch down for days and who knows how much longer.

It's his own fault. It was clear from the beginning that this one get's very popular in a short time and it should to be role model for other modders. Quaxis unofficial patches never had such problems because he cared about the community and how it works.

I think there is something wrong with the altered add-scripts for primers. I was given an insane negative amount of primer when I bought a primer box.

This is what my crafting menu looked like, it recognized my negative amount of primers, but they can't bee seen in the inventory.
http://img338.imageshack.us/i/scriptbug.png/

I agree but the point is that this whole permissions thing should be removed for fix compilations, there should only be a few rules like linking to the original patches and their corresponding authors and the compiler shouldnt claim it as his own work. This would remove all problems of authors not responding. There would not be any trouble at all as i fail to see why someone would not give permission to use a fix in a compilation (except being an egoistic [censored]).

I disagree I want to be asked before my mesh fixes get borged and btw. I never had problems getting permissions from serious modders if I needed them as I already stated earlier.

No, it would mean you don't understand their rules or why the Compilation Patch was pulled.

If someone goes into the GECK and changes the two dialogue conditions for the McCarran grocery quest from "2" to "3" and releases it that is a fix.

If someone else merges that ESP into their own ESP without permission, that is against the rules.

If that same someone else goes into the GECK and changes the "2" to "3" in their own ESP, that is allowed.

Yes, it really is that simple.

It would be such a happy world if the rules just stated: All proper fixes will be used in a compilation for every user to enjoy

Or just a download-all-fixes button

This still doesn't belong here, but I'll say again: I don't want to be involved in the fights over what constitutes "proper fixes" and where the line is drawn.

i did it again, silly reply button. i didnt even want to reply. What i mean is if there was a way to download all fixes at once you dont have to worry about what a proper fix is because there is nothing merged. Then find a way to apply them all at once and everyone is happy.

When you can tell the difference between the two by examining them in the editor yourself then it is reasonable to insist on this distinction, otherwise it is asinine.

What you are suggesting is that it would have been perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of the Nexus rules for Zenball to have released his compilation [bi]providing he took full credit for it[/bi] (with the exception being, as always, any non .esp assets.) That this is exactly contrary to how the community actually feels about these things should go without saying, but this is actually the behaviour you are encouraging by doing this. I don't think you've fully thought this through.

You can do that. Hit all the links in the original post then learn to use NVEdit or the GECK.

When you can tell the difference between the two by examining them in the editor yourself then it is reasonable to insist on this distinction, otherwise it is asinine.

What you are suggesting is that it would have been perfectly acceptable within the bounds of the Nexus rules for Zenball to have released his compilation providing he took full credit for it (with the exception being, as always, any non .esp assets.) That this is exactly contrary to how the community actually feels about these things should go without saying, but this is actually the behaviour you are encouraging by doing this. I don't think you've fully thought this through.

Not 200 posts yet, but close enough so I'm locking it. Better to just let this rest until Zenball gotten the permissions and make a new thread.


Indeed, it's a serious issue and very disrespectful.


So any GECK work that a person do should be graded? By whom? It would only cause more conflicts about where the line is drawn between "important GECK work" and "useless creditless GECK work". No, all GECK work is important and deserves to be credited.


Your comment about getting into hot water is indeed silly as it would make the assumption that Nexus is a public service for hosting mods. It isn't, Nexus can choose to remove mods as they see fit, if the mod makers doesn't like it, they need to host their mods some place else. Nothing Nexus do goes against Bethesda, Bethesda can't force Nexus to host mods.