How could speechcraft work?

Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:36 am

I tried for a long time to come up with a better persuasion system. It would have to be practicable (As that is the way you advance the skill.) It would have to make sense. It would have to be fun. I tried several different methods, and each one fell flat.

Spoiler
The subtleties of conversation are difficult to translate to a mere video game.

I like the conversation of Black Isle games, especially if the dialog is written well. Planescape: Torment is a prime example. Naturally, I figured they could just emulate this type of system, like Fallout 3/NV did, Mass Effect, The Witcher, etc. The problem is the way TES skill system works. You learn by doing. In those other games, you could advance your conversational ability simply by selecting that skill to advance when you level up. You don't do this in a TES game, and it doesn't make sense to repeatedly select a dialog option you know is wrong merely for the sake of practice.

I can see what they were going for in Oblivion. You try to read facial expressions to find out what the character will respond to best. It translated into an awful persuasion system, but I feel their pain. This is not a simple problem.

Perhaps a bit of Daggerfall could make it's way in here again. Daggerfall had a list of topics, similar to Morrowind, but you could select whether to speak plainly, roughly, or formally. When addressing nobles, it's best to speak formally, but the rabble on the street responds better to roughly.

Picture this. You select individual dialogs, similar to Fallout or any Black Isle game. But there is a small menu above the dialog options to allow you to set the tone of your response. Each response would change depending on what you select.

Formal:
Greetings my Lady. I am but a weary traveler, and if you would be willing to inform me as to the location of an inn, I would be most appreciative.

Plain:
Good day. You wouldn't happen to know where an inn is, would you?

Rough:
Hey wench. Tell me where the inn is.

Different characters would have different tolerances for improper behavior for their own status. The game would check each attempt at conversation against your persuasion skill to adjust the disposition of the character you are speaking to, so you are, in a way, always in "persuasion mode" if this were Oblivion, but subtle, and you aren't able to make someone go from hating you to loving you with just a few jokes. It takes time to gain someone's trust.

The higher your persuasion skill, the more you are able to influence their disposition in a positive way, and the higher their disposition toward you, the more they are willing to overlook anything you might say wrong. And very high persuasion skills could unlock previously unavailable conversation topics.

So you always have to watch what you say, always, lest you offend someone. And simply speaking to people gives you experience toward persuasion. Repeating things said before with the same person won't influence your persuasion anymore.


Sounds like a sound solution. :thumbsup:
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Alisia Lisha
 
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Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:12 am

I think they could (should) implement FNV's skill checks into the dialogue. Not everywhere, but occasionally a topic would require the player to pass a certain skill check in order to (successfully) access it.

You'd still level your speech skill by engaging in conversation, but some topics would require a certain skill level in order to progress.

And also some gender/race specific dialogue would be nice.
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mimi_lys
 
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Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:58 am

I think that's way to complex, would be difficult to implement and relies too much on the player and not enough on the skill. I don't want tospend 5 minutes anolysing the charactersw many personality traits to choose an optimised way to increase my disposition. Yawn.


It's a good idea, and it could still be implemented without that level of intricacy. Basically, having a higher level of the skill would make the anolysis of the character easier (remove certain options, etc.)

And the player is what RPG's are all about! I'm not playing AS my character - the way I see it, I AM my character, in all the possible ways it is for me to project my personality into them (moral choices, mental skill, etc.) and imagined personality (the focus of RP).

Just my 2c.
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lexy
 
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Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:46 am

Well we can be pretty sure it's not gonna be like Oblivion at least.
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Robert DeLarosa
 
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Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:33 pm

snip

The only thing I would do is add more ways to speak to some one thus making it a bit more challenging than picking 1 out of the 3 and make 1 out of the 8 or so.




Also Speech could open up even more possibilities like a joke or a threat you couldn't do from earlier levels which may have some effect on them. And all these options would be in the text themselves and not in some mini game.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:24 am

What I hated the most about OB's speech system was that I had to do all 4 types of dialogue. I can do Morrowind's all day. I love Morrowind's speechcraft system. And when it was modded where it added hundreds of new lines of dialogue, it was even more fun. If I want to flirt with someone 20 times in a row and then tell a joke or intimidate them, then I should have the option to do just that.
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Donatus Uwasomba
 
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