I think the rag doll in oblivion is kinda funny... I mean I know some people like to see enemies flying all over, but I think it's kinda ridiculous when your arrow sends an atronach into the sky.

Do we need realistic rag doll? like instead of flying out, the enemy stumbles in pain for a few steps and fall down to the ground and dies.

The problem is people are probably pretty equally split between over the top deaths and real deaths. Someone almost always makes a real deaths mod for the PC.

it's relative. Imagine that a dragon hits a NPC and instead of going flying, stumbles in pain for a few steps...
I see only two choices here, make a sistem that will fail sometimes, or make the program calculate the mass of the attacker and the victim which would strain the frames per second.

Euphoria please?

This
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi5adyccoKI

and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe51ZPL9aRE

more examples
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXBR5tJttiM&feature=related

these were used in GTA IV as well as RDR and honestly its the most realistic animations in gaming

They ought to blend death animations with ragdoll physics, kind of like what the original Halo did. Of course, I agree that it's nice to have some completely excessive death sequences now and then, so I'm not quite sure which course of action Bethesda ought to take.

I think Red Dead Redemption got the ragdolls right.

I loved the GTA IV deaths, really realistic, the whole nerves system thing worked out great.



Gears of War also did the death animation into ragdoll, where you shoot grunt and it does a back roll death animation, but if it's interrupted it fluidly transitions into ragdoll physics.

I swear if I see one more post asking for Euphoria.... We know it isn't Euphoria! Sure it would be nice to have that realistic of ragdoll physics but for the love of Giant Spaghetti Monster stop asking for what you already know it isn't!

Yeah, the euphoria physics in RDR were the best I've seen in any game. I recall one time, I tried to run down a pretty steep slope, but my character just ended up losing his footing and rolling down the hill. He smacked his head on the ground at the bottom and held onto it for a few seconds before slowly getting up.

If euphoria was incorporated into Skyrim, that would be pretty amazing.

Those examples are amazing but wouldn't they have had to been using Euphoria since the project began, or could they add that in now that the game is supposedly near the end of its development?

Last time I checked the most recent iteration of Euphoria was simply an animation system you use to give your characters good animations within your engine. Its not a game engine itself. And this also goes to the guy up a few posts throwing out a very frustrated post. Chill please, and I believe your thinking euphoria is something its not. Its just an animation engine used by game developers.

In RDR and GTAIV, Euphoria added realistic simulation to every bullet that hit the enemy, how would that work in Skyrim? I would be overpowered if every attack the enemy would start to move funny... As much as I don't want enemy sponges, every RPG needs some kind of balance so it can be balanced and make skills count without making the combat boring and frustrating.

With Euphoria, each hit would result in the NPC losing balance and falling. Which would become dumb overtime, however if we tweaked it to simulate these ragdolls only after NPC death or near-death, it wouldn't feel right.

Wouldn't be much of a ragdoll if they kept walking would it? It should be renamed Death Physics.

YEEEAH, EUPHORIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! (isn't that euphoric?) ADD IT for god's sake, there's still time and it would go SO DAMN FAR for building credibility and immersion in a first person fighting experience like Skyrim!!! Oblivion's Havok made bodies behave like rubber wheel tubes, lol, it svcked >_>
Well anyway, i guess by now Havok must be a better iteration of what it was last time so there's hope still.

as long as the enemy doesn't fly away I'm happy

Let's hope they make corpses fall like they would in real life instead of sloooowly floating down.

its actutally called endorphin but yes it was ridiculous how enemies would fly, kinda like they were on the moon, when you killed them.

i cant think of a better examlpe than endorphin, or at least something similar made by bethesda

Nope.

Endorphin, Morpheme and Euphoria are 3 different things, but all middlewares by Natural Motion.

Morpheme is used for animations. Euphoria for human behaviour simulation. Endorphin is a tool for creating scenes using tech from both Morpheme and Euphoria.

In Oblivion I would attack a wolf with a slow power attack and it would not move anywhere. When I hit it again with a weak quick attack it died and then proceeded to cart-wheel across the sky as it's bones bent inside themeselves.

So Euphoria yes please...

As much as I would love Euphoria (Red Deads physics were perfect imo), I am 99.9% sure that they aren't going that route. At the very least, I would hope for a slightly more realistic ragdoll reaction. Although they can occasionally be more realistic, death animations look horribly dated nowadays. Even when death animations are blended with body physics, you can usually tell when the transition takes place. The COD games and MOH are famous for these. Just watch sometimes when an enemy gets shot, and you see the same repetitive reactions until they transition into ragdoll, die, and then transition into a static, non-interactive background object. When an explosion takes place, they do the same stupid looking backflip every time.

I guess I would rather have an over the top physics system than none at all, but I don't see any reason they can't just tone down the system they had in Oblivion to more realistic proportions. Since this a "brand new engine", I would imagine that they at least upgraded to the newest Havok physics engine. I would imagine Havok has made some pretty big improvements since 2006, so hopefully they would take advantage. Imo, the only changes needed from Oblivions physics are to add some gravity or mass to the objects, and add a bit of rigidity so the models don't look like gumby so much....