Hey there. First a little background: I purchased Oblivion as soon as it was released, having been a fan of Morrowind for many years. I'm now on my third playthrough (over 180 hours on this one), and like most PC players, I find the game always refreshing with the multitude of community created content available.

This probably has been questioned before, but since I admit not being a regular here (although I scan the Mods forum daily), I just can't resist my curiosity:

Why did Bethesda cease to work on Oblivion? There's so much room for large and small expansions. The engine remains very powerful and many technical updates were made possible through the release of both Fallout games. This is a very strange marketing/development decision.

Having some experience in this industry, I'm aware that maintaining a content development team is costly, and the resources required to put together a fully fledged expansion like Shivering Isles does not easily come by. However, take Valve for instance. They are known for keeping an eye on player created content and integrating them with their Intelectual Property. They managed to turn Counter Strike, for instance, into a highly lucrative business. Mods like Deadly Reflex, MMM, and Oscuro, to name a few, have had over a million downloads and continue to expand. If you were to fully integrate them into Oblivion, in a, let's say, Ultimate Oblivion release, and charge only $10 for it, there's over U$10.000.000 in raw profits for very little actual development. Possibly much more with the media coverage. Look at how many bugs UOP managed to squeeze, that's hours and hours of development free of charge.

I'm not implying you should blatantly "steal" people's work and turn them into company cash...but I'm willing to bet many in the community would be more than happy to be acknowledged by having their pet projects become part of Oblivion, not to mention most would love to see Oblivion expanded and continued in some fashion.

Behold amount of landmass that could be expanded in every direction with a very small team of worldbuilders. People would happily pay for those! If there's a huge concern about the expenses of maintaining a team of modellers and scripters, why don't you buy those assets? It'd be far more cheap, seeing there are tons of people already working on them for absolutely nothing in return! If you were to support PC only DLCs, look at the amount of eyecandy and graphical features that could be added to Vanilla Oblivion, bringing it closer to the designers' original vision. You have, after years, a massive community, which is very impressive for a single player game. Why isn't anybody taking advantage of this, but the players themselves? It feels like someone's sloppy decision to sit back and relax and let others finish the business.

You have an engine capable to be deliver powerful graphics, even by today standards, but with some limitations that were a major issue years ago. But today, with more powerful machines and forgiving deadlines, there's room to expand and to polish leftovers from the initial release. You could even work together with those responsible for enhancing the scripting capabilities of Oblivion by incrementing the amount of tools available for the community. The potential is limitless, and you'd be ensuring the community could last for many more years, while still bringing in resources to fund other projects, ES5 included.

And yet, the official DLCs available are so minimalistic in scope, and clearly a discontinued project. Can't any of the CEOs see the amount of potential profit being wasted here? And it's not like the engine is getting any younger...Heck, if this was my company all the other provinces would probably be fully explorable by ship, perhaps with fully configurable dynamic shadowing and an intelligent companion system toggled by a radial menu.

All in all, I really think Bethesda should take a hint from the amount of content people have been voluntarily creating just because they are passionate about the game. Give your own game some love!

They had to move on to make Fallout 3.
Since then, they've been working on The Elder Scrolls 5 and Brink.
Or I think that's what they've been doing.

One acronym. TES V.
And Fallout too probably.

Yes, a company can't stop working on different projects. Although I recall a recent interview made in some European Game Expo from a developer (or CEO) claiming ES5 was not in production yet, or perhaps in a very early stage.

My point wasn't that however. If you're commited to developing an expansion like Shivering Isles, you certainly need a staffed office working around the clock and dealing with publishers, a tight schedule, etc. On the other hand, you don't actually need that to keep expanding Oblivion. There are other options. You can hire a couple of talented worldbuilders from the community to keep working on small additions to the game. You can buy assets from the community and turn that into profit by charging for regular graphical updates, you can negotiate with popular mod makers to release a game that is already made in a different box with an endless amount of bugfixes and alterations to the core gameplay.

Certain flaws with the engine have already been figured out by Bethesda by working on different titles, why not bring them over to Oblivion and allow a vast array of extra possibilities to be explored? That's what I meant...production does not need to stop with some clever marketing/design decisions. It can actually become very profitable.

In fact, they could even hire a smaller studio to take over the production of content. Gah, there are so many options.

Although it has already been said, they had to work on FO3. I think they assumed the modding community would keep the game active for quite some time, and they did release a good amount of DLC. From a business standpoint, making more and more content for Oblivion would not be nearly as lucrative as, say, making a sequel. There is a good chance they will announce it within the next few months. For more information (...speculation, actually) check out the Official TESV Speculation Thread located here:

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1141791-official-tesv-speculation-thread-77/page__st__120__gopid__16701491&#entry16701491

Not to mention the fact that even without that stuff, Oblivion is still making them a good amount of money...

These are two different things entirely. Counter Strike was a new game. Oscuro modified the original game.

Releasing an expansion that alters the base game is a headache I would not wish on anyone. In my view, Bethesda would be courting a Star Wars Galaxy-style "New Game Experience" backlash if they changed Oblivion's gameplay significantly. It may sound strange but most players don't run Deadly Reflex (I don't). In fact most players don't even use Oscuro (a recent poll on the mods forum revealed that only 10 people out of 133 used Oscuro - even more startling, 20 players said they liked vanilla just fine and did not use any overhaul mod at all). Oscuro itself is a compilation of user-made mods in one large package and many people avoid it. It changes Oblivion far too much for their tastes.

We have to assume that nearly everybody would like some changes and dislike others. Which means that Bethesda would have to offer installation options: Deadly Reflex and Oscuro but not Martigen, Deadly Reflex and Martigen but not Oscuro, Oscuro and Martigen but not Deadly Reflex, etc, etc. This is confusing with only three components to choose from. Additional component would increase the complexity of the installation. The average player would likely need to pore over documentation for hours to find out what each of these mods did and how they would affect their game.




I think this would work. Here we're talking about adding to the game, rather than changing the game, and I think a lot of people would like this.




This is a breathtakingly audacious assumption to make about any work or art. Let's take a different example. Was Emily Bronte was sloppy because, when writing Jane Eyre, she left out information about Rochester's time in Jamaica? Did she "sit back and relax," figuring that someone would "finish the business?" No. She made a deliberate artistic choice to leave this part of the story out of her book. Jean Rhys later told that story in Wide Sargasso Sea. Was Jean Rhys "finishing" Emily Bronte's business? I don't think she was. Emily Bronte, we have to assume, wrote exactly the book she wanted to write. Likewise, I belive Bethesda created exactly the landscape they intended to create. I do not think they were "sloppy" for not including Skyrim or Valenwood. I believe Skyrim or Valenwood were not part of the story they wanted to tell.

Every artist has to make hard decisions about what is necessary and what is not, what can stay and what has to go. At some point every artist has to let go of the work and give it to the public. The fact that some things (Sutch, Ocato's continuing interaction with the player at the end of the main quest) were cut from Oblivion does not necessarily mean that Bethesda was sloppy.

I do agree with one thing though. I too wish Bethesda had released another expansion. I thought they dropped Oblivion too fast.

They did exactly the same with Morrowind.
Dropped it too fast, and relied on the Goodwill of the community to complete the patching of all the still officially unpatched bugs in each, after they had ceased work on each despite the patches for each introducing NEW bugs into the games.

Jenifur Charne

Sadly, They haven't been working on TES V. They are working on Brink, and Fallout 4. I'm wishing Fallout would just die already so we can have our Elder Scrolls. Just think, If Bethesda never purchased rights to make Fallout games. Fallout 3 wouldn't have came out, New Vegas wouldn't have came out. The time and money used on those two games would have been used on TES V and we would probably have in 2011-2012. Sadly this is not happening we are going to see another Fallout game sigh... and some other crap I am not bothering with.

Bethesda doesn't work on Brink (they just publish it: Splash Damage is developing it) and there hasn't been a word on Fallout 4. Bethesda didn't make New Vegas either. I assume that they've started work on TES V not long after FO3's release.

They wasted money and resources on New Vegas and Brink though. They are however, making Fallout 4. I'm sure thats what they are working on right now.

No they didn't. Get your facts straight before you splurt out such nonense. Bethesda Game Studios (who made TES:IV and FO3) have not spent a single penny, or cent, on either of those two games. And, chances are they are working on TESV, not FO4.

What makes you sure they are working on Fallout 4 anyway?

With no official line, we'll just have to keep guessing untill something is announced. But surely they'll do TES:V before ANOTHER Fallout, especially as New Vegas has just come out. But yeah, NV was developed by Obsidian, just published by Bethesda.

I'm not completely sure they quit working oblivion - I have a theory they they where just taking a break from it. They go to work on another project and modders take it from there.
ES provided the construction set to make the modders work easy. With the large veriaty of mods out there, you just keep getting pulled into the game.

Who knows - They could be working on another expantion pack for it. In an interview with a worker of bethesda, he was being questioned about TES V
He said to "not expect it in the near future" but kept assureing that there will be one. I wonder how long exactily is the near future? Enough to make an expantion and 2 games or just start TES V after Falout 3

Questions still yet to be answered by an official bethesda employee. I feel that the reveal of work on TES V or even an oblivion expantion will come soon

They have spent money on those games. Do you even understand how the making of a game works. Bethesda pays the developers to develop games and just about every other game publisher does that. Fallout 4? Mainly because they of this: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4 and they seem to like the Fallout series more than their own series. I believe Fallout 3 had more sales than Oblivion did because it attracted a larger audience. All Bethesda cares about is money and right now Fallout makes them more money so blame Fallout if there is no TES V.

Yes, Bethesda SOFTWORKS, the publishing company, pays them to do that.

Not a single dime is lost from Bethesda Game Studio. They are literally not related except in name. That is it.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/113/1136343p1.html <------ ... "yay"

This.

Also, read the page you quoted.

Since Bethesda released Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas one right after the other I don't think they are currently working on Fallout series?

I'm going with this. Thanks for posting. I would've but I figured it'd be locked.

Bethesda made a ton of money on TES and Fallout. Since then, it seems they have been entertaining their artistic side, creating what Bethesda wants as pet projects rather than giving their fan-base what they want. I am sorely disappointed in their lack of reciprocal loyalty to the TES fans. Google search the bethesda name, and directly under the link pops up: "The third largest privately held personal computer entertainment software company in America." Well, Bethesda, who the heck got you there??? TES and FO, and TES far more than FO. While not an MMO (and thank gosh for that), the fan base of TES proportionally ranks up there with WoW. TES V is not confirmed. Wish they would go corporate... then the board of directors would slap them around for projects like RAGE and ROGUE WARRIOR. Combined, they had fewer sales the 1st year of release than TES 4 had in its 4th year.

It is the company's right to do as they wish with their hard-earned $ thru excellent games in a cut-throat industry. Whether this means releasing a sequel / new game 4-5 years after, or much longer, or even not releasing, due to not having a decent continuation to avoid tainting a brilliant series.

I can wait - heck, I waited 15 years to TRY Daggerfall! - and hopefully Beth will use their resources wisely and effectively, so that shortly after they release their new game they see people in marvel at how well they did.

Hey guys, all nice valid arguments, I didn't expect to get so many replies.

While some of my original ideas may not be commercially viable, it was actually Bethesda's degree of community involvement that I was questioning in first place.

As someone pointed out above, Bethesda is not a tiny independent studio. They can certainly commit themselves to different projects, and it's not uncommon these days for game developers to maintain a number of different franchises. They're also developing games to most platforms, which in return, is a very profitable strategy, and perhaps the only viable one in the industry these days, for most companies. If they have resources to afford such projects, they certainly have the resources to put together a better strategy to benefit from this growing community, which is good for them and gamers alike.

As the recent news unfold, it seems very likely they are -indeed- working on ES5, but that does not take away from the fact Morrowind and Oblivion still have giant communities and are still very different games. The fact we may have another installment sooner or later will not diminish their importance, would you rather see them die off every time a new chapter is released? Look at it this way, take a popular franchise, say Harry Potter. You can still make lots of money with every new film, but does that mean you will cease to release new editions of the books every year? That you will stop making toys, designing new merchandising, releasing old movies in DVD format, then blu-ray, and stil lsqueeze in making-ofs and previously unseen footage? Give George Lucas a call, he'll give you a hint or two on how fans can never get enough.

I disagree with certain arguments being made here. Specifically those claiming Bethesda already made enough money with Oblivion and continues to do okay. That's quite stupid from a marketing logistic. The process of capitalizing over your intellectual property, especially when there's so much room to make it even more profitable, is entirely what the entertainment business is about. As for the artistic side, there's equally so much potential barely explored, which makes me wonder if the creators of ES are as much in love with their fictional universes as Chris Metzen and pals seem to be with theirs. The fans, on the other hand, are always ready to spend $5 for 15 minutes of freshness.

And as far community/public relations goes, I think Bethesda could take a hint or two from Blizzard and Valve, companies that became exemplary in their capacity to amass feedback from their audiences and tailor an admirable level of respect and loyalty from their clients, even to the degree of fandom and annual conventions gravitating around their labels. And judging by the amount of users we have in this forum alone and the huge popularity and longevity of ES and Falloff, numbers aren't definetly a problem.