Things that are done better in the 1st and 2nd games when co

Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:24 am

I did a quick test for you with falche, lowered my INT to 2 points and yes I can read books without any drawback in skill points.Edit: I only tested it for Fallout 2, but I expect it will be the same for Fallout 1.

Thanks.

Would have been funny if you couldn't.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:06 am

Thanks.

Would have been funny if you couldn't.


Or if it lowered another stat :D
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D IV
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:42 pm

Heh, if you set a low INT and abused drugs, you could get almost all your stats down pretty low. Not recommended though, since you would be totally gimped that way.

One other good thing about setting a low initial INT: you could pump the extra stat points into STR to max it out and easily blow through the Temple of Trials in FO2 thanks to the boosts to melee and unarmed. Made a good base for a 'Hulk SMASH!' type of character. I never actually made one as I didn't care for melee or unarmed in those games due to the overwhelming superiority of high-skill ranged weapon use, but you could turn that base into a pretty powerful character with the right perks. You'll go through a lot of stimpacks though, and they're not that easy to amass.
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Motionsharp
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:20 am

One other good thing about setting a low initial INT: you could pump the extra stat points into STR to max it out and easily blow through the Temple of Trials in FO2 thanks to the boosts to melee and unarmed. Made a good base for a 'Hulk SMASH!' type of character. I never actually made one as I didn't care for melee or unarmed in those games due to the overwhelming superiority of high-skill ranged weapon use, but you could turn that base into a pretty powerful character with the right perks. You'll go through a lot of stimpacks though, and they're not that easy to amass.


You could also abuse drugs due to save/load bug regarding effects of drugs. Game keeps track of stat boosts and when do those end correctly, but it doesn't save flag for have used drugs, that existed only in run time memory. For example, combat starts and you have 10 action points, then you go inventory and use max allowed amount of Jet. Save game and load it, you are in still in combat and have 6 action points, repeat inventory and jet use. You have 2 AP left, use 'em or don't and press next turn, notice that you now have 18 action points per turn until jet boos runs out. Same applied to other drugs too, same with mentats before leveling gave few extra skill points. Exploitation is basically cheating, but it allowed to pass few pretty annoying things with idiot character like entering certain BoS bunker and using computer inside it.

Playing FO2 with retarded character was pretty funny and some of dialogue was pretty insane. Weapons were quite well balanced and idiot character can use almost all skill points in combat skills. Some skills that are important to normal character are essentially useless to idiot. Speech, barter, science, repair are pretty useless if NPC just tell you to bugger off before dialogue trees that require those skills even appear or when using computer will mostly just trigger notification that there is blinking lights and you head hurts. Besides every skill point invested in skills that can be developed with books are wasted even with normal character. Low INT character should have high physical attributes and luck, charisma can go down to same drain with INT, reason is same as with certain skills, it doesn't have any value to retard, most of companions just won't join idiot on epic journey... Dogmeat and K-9 will join you and that should be enough. Melee/unarmed are quite viable alternative to small arms in early game and later on you can develop big guns for ranged combat if you really want use 'em.
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Peter P Canning
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:07 am

I often did use melee in the early game, however I never really developed it except for one case when I wanted to fight the guy in San Fransisco, because I could get much more mileage in the mid-late game out of ranged weaponry. One big advantage of using melee in the early game was that it let you save money that would otherwise have been sunk into 10mm rounds for the Pipe Rifle or 10mm Pistol.

I never really used drugs either since withdrawal really hurt, although it's true you could get some pretty good combat effects going if you did.

I don't know if you ever tried this, but if you had a character with 10 INT you could get some priceless reactions from at least some of the more arrogant characters when you showed them you understood better than even they did what they were talking about.
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Katharine Newton
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:13 am

I often did use melee in the early game, however I never really developed it except for one case when I wanted to fight the guy in San Fransisco, because I could get much more mileage in the mid-late game out of ranged weaponry. One big advantage of using melee in the early game was that it let you save money that would otherwise have been sunk into 10mm rounds for the Pipe Rifle or 10mm Pistol.


That problem fully applies to first game. When it comes to weapons and combat styles, balance was fixed in FO2 pretty well. Still in FO2 unarmed doesn't have mid-game weapons. Unarmed focused character will manage with well selected perks, mostly better criticals and extra melee damage. Power fist and mega power fist will fix that issue for later game, with tons of melee boost perks it quite much as effective as plasma rifle is. Melee weapons is bit worse alternative in my opinion as only really good late game weapon is super-sledge... and that has annoying draw back, it knocks enemies pretty far when you are supposed to be close to them. For mid-game upgraded cattle prod, Lil Jesus, Wakizashi and Ripper are pretty good. Unarmed/Big guns is quite effective combination, couple bursts from minigun or alternatively shots from missile launcher soften up target followed by charge is about as effective as any small arms or energy weapons build.

I never really used drugs either since withdrawal really hurt, although it's true you could get some pretty good combat effects going if you did.


I think drug withdrawal is quite manageable in original games, as only Jet addiction will not go off with time, rest of addictions did heal in couple weeks or so. Serious cool down/hangover was much better when compared how insignificant all addictions were on third game and how easily you could get rid of those... return to home or level up spare change to docs. Drug effect lasted usually long enough to deal with pretty much all combats and then you could leave to rest until stats have restored, usually cool down lasted for 24 hours.

I don't know if you ever tried this, but if you had a character with 10 INT you could get some priceless reactions from at least some of the more arrogant characters when you showed them you understood better than even they did what they were talking about.


I have probably played both of original games with pretty much all kinds of character builds, karma choices and combinations of those. Dialogue was awesome on both of original games, if I remember correctly there were couple of arrogant NPC's that became violent if you didn't brown nose 'em.
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Alyce Argabright
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:47 am

I guess I never gave melee or unarmed enough of a workout, but after run-ins with packs of critters that could constantly knock me down if I let them get close enough I decided to go with ranged weaponry. You're quite right that with perks like Slayer and whatnot you could make a pretty good Unarmed character, but I was always leery of paying the high AP costs for the special moves given a normal cap of 12 for non-movement actions.

You're right that drug effects were manageable, but the first such I ever used was Jet, which kinda soured me on the idea.
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Ronald
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:17 am

Back to topic, I have to say I much preferred the spread of equipment and items in Fallout 2 over Fallout 3 (and Fallout 1, as well.) In #2, I rather liked how you started out at the very bottom "rung" of the equipment ladder, and (considering a standard play-through - ie, not "exploiting" knowledge of the map to run out and grab some Power Armor right off the bat, etc,) how you generally spent a decent amount of time each step "step" along the way. (Like: you finally save up enough money for some Leather Armor, and by the time you get the Customized Leather Armor, it's still a valuable upgrade that you spend a noticeable amount of time cherishing.)

I seem to remember a pre-release interview with Todd Howard, where he mentioned that he wanted to make use of the item condition mechanic to make some of the higher-level weapons and equipment more available early on in the game - to give the players a taste of what would be out there without making them wait for the most of the game to be able to find it. Ostensibly, I think the idea was that the player would find a high-level item with near-zero condition and be able to play around with it a bit before it broke. Which I think was actually an honorable motive. But the downside was that if you happened to come across something like that, all you really had to do was take it back to a merchant and get it repaired - basically you were getting a high-level item before you were really "supposed" to have access to it. (And ammo was something I rarely found to be all that much of a limitation, for the most part.)

I think that's something that could have worked out - but perhaps needed to have been thought through a little bit more.

Still, what I enjoyed about Fallout 2 was how you'd get to Klamath as a near-penniless tribal with little of any real value to barter with, and even the most basic of necessities was well outside of your price range. I still remember saving up every penny and trading in almost all my disposable good just to be able to buy a couple of actual stimpaks, so that I wouldn't have to rely on those Healing Powders quite as much - and how buying just two of those completely cleaned me out.

The relative scarcity of certain items in Fallout 2 (and of course, towards mid-game this was much less of a consideration - an aspect that's been present throughout all of the Fallout series,) was something I felt really added to the setting and atmosphere. Buying those stimpaks wasn't like going to the drug store to pick up medicine - it felt like I was buying a rare Pre-War artifact that had miraculously managed to stay intact through all of those years. An item that was valuable not just for it's usefulness, but as a rare artifact of the nearly "magical" Pre-War civilization.


Most of the merchants have terrible repair rates and you would be better off using the lower scale weapons at higher repair levels. Only untill you unlock Crazy Wolfgang to the max or use the glitch in point outlook can you rely off of the merchants.

Also I remember looting every gecko once I could skin them even the silver ones to get enough caps, but I also remember having to use a crappy asault rifle I just pulled off a raider because my laser pistol had degraded. FO 3 is just like the others hard to learn easy to master.

What did I like better in 1 and 2?

The sense of urgency from the time limit.
The followers where more specialized.
The fact that they were the first fallout games I had played.

Edit: Parts of Fallout 3 where the situation had multiple ways to end it.
- Paradise Falls
- Col. Autumn at the Vanilla Ending
- The robot in the Musuem of History
- The ghoul watersalesmen in Broken Steel
- The bandits stealing water in Broken Steel
- Oasis
(Thats just from the top of my head)
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Imy Davies
 
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Post » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm

I totally agree with every point that F1&2 is better...
and i have one point to make that the speech in the originals is the best... exhibit one

(Fallout 1... talking to a doctor at night time)
- It's late come back in the morning.
- But i need your help.
- Are you hurt?
- No
- You will be if you keep me from my sleep. Now come back in the morning.

Every time i read it... i rofl...

I know it's simple writing but just give me any dialog in F3 that even gets close to this level of writing...
i mean even the Harold dialogs in F3 (which are supposed to be funny) get as close to get me to smile...
it's just sad that even with a comic figure like Harold don't get to make a funny joke... and i don't blame the voice actor but the dialogs!
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Nadia Nad
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:28 am

I've played through Fallout 1 and have just started F2. I've played countless hours of F3. To be honest, I see very little that I see was better in those games than in F3. Perhaps having traits would be interesting. And I wouldn't have minded if the character skills and SPECIALS would have even more of an impact on your character. Apart from that, I find F3 to be superior to the other games in all other aspects that I can think of.
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Alberto Aguilera
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:44 am

Trippy.
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Chris Johnston
 
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Post » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:55 pm

Well, considering that this thread has 8 replies, and the original counterpart has 11x as many I am forced to conclude that: FALLOUT 3 IS BETTER!! My plan worked perfectly. :woot:


62 replies.
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Jose ordaz
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:43 am

being a dumb character. it was interesting how you were limited on what you can do and different dialogue, unlike fallout 3 where you simply have the same dialogue as a low int character or a high int character
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sas
 
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Post » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:38 pm

For me the biggest advantage of FO 2 was the humour.

Other advantages:

balance of humour / serious action / strategical dialogs+char. build - all 3 involved equally
NPCs - Sulik with machine gun and Vic with gauss rifle rock not to mention Marcus with plazma and Cassidy with shotgun and you may acquire company much sooner
weirdly graphic (colour of). Yes FO3 has modern engine but seeing everything in grey is just sooo boring
Open ending movies
Choice and its effect - char.build/dialogs/karma/everything you do has an impact. And there A LOT to do in Fo2

Now advantages of Fo3:
Screen Resolution
Slow motion graphical presentation of VATS shots
Morning and evening graphic presentation
hmm... may be... all characters moving their head and mouth while in dialog?

Advantage of Fo Tactics

Ability to choose how you specialise your followers (you distribute their skill points)


Fun: Fo1/Fo2 >> Fo3
Graphic: Crysis>>Fo3
Choice: Fo1/Fo2>>Fo3
Strategy and thinking: Fo1/Fo2 >>Fo3

I consider Fo3 to be very good game. But there are great games out there. And Fo2... is just best and for me it always was.
I played Fo2 about 300x (back in the days when it came out), FO1 about 10x and FO3 i only ever finished twice, always got bored half way.
To add another quote from Fo2 here: "What you doing here? I tho children were banned in the US since 1.1 patch. I must have got a Europian version of Fallout 2 then"
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Alexander Horton
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:57 am

wearing power armour made you almost invincible! in FO3, even with power armour you get killed quite fast. meeting raiders on the wastes in FO1 and 2 when wearing power armour was great, made you feel powerful like some sort of god! :disguise:
mwahaha, your puny spear is no match for my metal skin!

you could say it made it too easy but the armour's not easy to get, you earned it! and you need power armour to get past all the super mutants in their base.
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Erin S
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:39 am

I would suggest imagining the F03 world in the isometric FO1&2 format. Strip away the graphics, and i don't think anyone can honestly say there would be much to that game (relatively).

On the other hand, imagine having FO1&2 remade with FO3 style graphics, keeping the characters and dialogue etc... That would be AMAZING.

I imagine i'm not the first to think of this though.


OMG that would be perfect! if they just kept EVERYTHING else the same. dialogue, characters, towns, quests, friends, enemies, decisions.. and built FO 1 and 2 in the 3D real time style that would be so amazing. :vaultboy:
please bethesda, hear our pleas!
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:14 pm

OMG that would be perfect! if they just kept EVERYTHING else the same. dialogue, characters, towns, quests, friends, enemies, decisions.. and built FO 1 and 2 in the 3D real time style that would be so amazing. :vaultboy:
please bethesda, hear our pleas!
Yeah, wouldn't it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wf_2V7wLkI
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Dean Brown
 
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