Hero's Origins

The hero of the Elder Scrolls adventures, as we know, typically appears in prison with seemingly no knowledge of his/her surroundings or the people that inhabit them. In a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Escape_From_Prison, the hero of the Oblivion Crisis seems to appear in prison one day with no idea how he/she got there, who the hell this kindly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-luc_Picard is, or what he/she should do with him/herself. They have no possessions save the clothes on their back, no skills or increased attributes except for what their race allows them, and even no class to speak of! Their only advantage seems to be the ability to be in the right place in the right time and the opportunity for level growth and, especially, attribute potential beyond what any other citizen can ever hope to accomplish.

It seems to me that, barring the possible excuse of "prison atrophy" and a background the player is free to imagine, that the in-game world reason for this "character creation" may be that the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Aedra deem it necessary to create a hero, and they need to do it quick. It's as if the gods look at the world and decide there is http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glarthir worthy to save it from its current crisis. So, they make a person full of power and potential that can be unlocked in mere days, already in their young advlthood to late senior years. After they save the world (or province or continent, etc) they are free to live a life as they choose, perhaps a normal life besides having no childhood memories or experiences until they die to take their place in the hero's circle or what have you.

Does this seem a possible explanation to you?

Daedric Form

Though it's easy to tell that I'm a fan of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hermaeus_Mora, please don't take this next possibility as too biased. The reason I've come up with this (and perhaps I'm not the first) is my time spent thinking on Hermaeus Mora, His nature and demeanor, and so forth.

I believe I have read thathttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Daedric_Princes may assume any form they choose, and if I did not read this I'm unsure where the assumption came from, but assuming that this is the case, especially when one looks at the many varied looks of a Daedric Prince (from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Molag_Bal to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Azura to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mehrunes_Dagon to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Clavicus_Vile), isn't it reasonable to assume that Daedric Princes might all have an original form?

Just as many of the mortal races have changed over the many thousands of years of recorded and spoken history, and indeed as some http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Trinimac#Trinimac have, and also since the daedra are http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Padomay#Padomay in origin, it is safe to assume, in my mind, that the forms we see the Daedric Princes take today are not necessarily the forms they have always had.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mephala changes gender appearance to suit its audience's tastes, and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Boethiah has been known to "take the form of" another deity at least on one occasion. And being such unfathomably powerful beings that came well before mortal kind, perhaps before the "human" form took shape, they probably have some sort of primordial look to the forms they originally took. Maybe somewhat shapeless, with random parts that would inspire future creatures?

My proposal is that though the Daedric Princes wear many masks, there is but one who is completely unconcerned with the physical and only with the mental, going so far as to retain His original shape either out of lack of interest for how He looks to mortals and immortals alike, or out of some kind of pride, or to send a message of the lack of importance He places on appearances. When we look upon Hermaeus Mora's "disturbing" form and listen to His guttural voice, then, I believe we are experiencing an http://theelderscrolls.info/images/artikel/oblivion/quest/daedra/mora/DAE_Mora_2.jpg just as he was created or appeared so many millenia ago. Before there is the concrete, there is the abstract. The mud, the clay from which other things, beings are created.

Is that one more on the money, or not? I value all opinions on these two ideas and would welcome any facts, conjectures, wild hunches or anything at all about the subject.

I think the fist one would be plausible... if it werent for the fact that TES PCs come with some sort of background info, which in my opinion is an implication that they are indeed simple humans, born and raised, with life prior to the imprisonment, guided by some force or diety to accomplish the big feats that they all seem to do.

And the original forms of Daedric Princes... I am not sure who or when said it, but someone here gave me the impression that they are more of an idea that a being. But these ideas are capable of taking some form to manifest themselves. If thats the case, that there is no original forms other than the form the idea takes. But again, that was just my mumbling which is based on something someone said here.

I like the first theory. Whenever a crisis hits Mundus the Nine select a specific mortal and "supercharge" him so that he can achieve thing that would take normal mortals years to do. After the Hero has done what he was supposed to do, the Nine remove him from Mundus. This is neccesary because the heroes are to powerful to be left on Mundus. Look at what the Nerevarine or the Champion were capable of doing in only a few years. Imagine what would happen if you let someone like that run free.

This theory also seems to be supported by the Prophet from Kotn:

"Each event is preceded by Prophecy.
But without the hero, there is no Event."
- Zurin Arctus

Besides that, I call game mechanics on your case.


Daedra repressent concepts, or ideas like lex said. They have no "original" form, because back before they were Daedra, no such form was needed.
If someone would look at a Daedra Prince in all his glory, he would still only appear in a form dependant on the viewer's perspective, and what his "notion" about the Daedra's concept is.

Exactly. Original form is an oxymoron when speaking about Daedric Princes, since they predate the concept of "form".

Why did you specifically point out Glarthir like that?

Yeah, what up with all the UESPWiki links? -_-

I started to do a few to actually point at sources, then I just started doing random ones for the hell of it. It was really late.

Okay, so granted the daedra were ideas to begin with, but they had to take physical shape at some point. I doubt that they started out looking like, say, Mephala, but it's entirely probable to me that Hermaeus Mora and possibly many of the other princes started out taking odd, nonsensical appearances like that.

I just think that the daedra were originators of certain creatures and models of things. One question I would have is the origin of dragons...does Akatosh take His form from dragons or vice-versa? Or are dragons from Peryite? Or (so many ors) does Peryite take His form from Akatosh (or the dragons that possibly come from His form) so as to mock Him/them?

I guess I'm just interested in origins, perhaps too focused on the physical world.

I don't think there is a difference between the ideas and the physical world. You can build an entire world inside your mind without anything physical, the Aurbis somewhat resembles that mind.

Call it the shape of the thought and wonder what it says about Akatosh when Peryte resembles him so much.



You are the Hero, fill in the blanks works better.

I have no idea, personally, but I wish somebody'd clue me in. LOL.

Akatosh thinks too much? Or does Peryite? Maybe Peryite thinks he's Akatosh. God! I gotta' quite puzzling over this before I turn into a dragon!

Seriously, though, don't get pissed, Prow, I'm j/k. However, if you have a good theory about that connection, could you please divulge the info? I have wondered about that one for a while. LOL.

'Amazing, the ability to infer significance in something devoid of detail!'

My take: Symbols of authority.

:P

Makes sense for both. Thanx.