I understand what you mean... man I really hope they improve acrobatics in the next game, I want to be a Jester with a custom-made staff, with illusion/mysticism skills going through the Mage's guild. Lol.

But either way, I completely get what you're saying.

So, while we are still on staves and staffs. (btw, is there a difference)

The temple or legion guild could have leadership requirements. ie speechcraft or mercantile...or an authoritative Pers. dependent skill.

The Temple required 3 of Alchemy, Blunt Weapon, Conjuration, Mysticism, Restoration and Unarmoured. Since healing the sick is both mentioned as one of their major activities and involved in several of their quests it seems right for Alchemy and Restoration to be on their skill list.

I've no problem with skill and attribute requirements, although they should be tougher than MWs for the higher ranks, but theres no reason why they can't be combined with quests for advancement that properly reflect the faction.

Id rather be able to use Steves (of the magical and non-magical varieties)

Hmm. How about staves, and as mentioned in the Suggestions thread bigger one handers, be a one hand / two hand optional. And a separate cast animation for swords, staves, shileds, and other weapons. Like why do staffs and staves have to be the only casting weapons. Granted, 'casting' staffs and 'fighting' staves (is that the difference?) may operate differently, and hold different enchantment values. But casting shield from Eleidon's Ward or manually incinerating your enemies as you swing your sword? I like it.

A stave is a staff, they both mean the same thing. Like chair and seat.

---

But anyway, I thought that Rhekarid's idea of customizing weapons was probably the best bet... I know I'll get slapped for mentioning this, but has anybody played Spore and build something other than a creature?

I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be that interactive, but being able to add "sawblades" to the side of your sword, or custom spikes to your mace, or little doohickeys on your staff could work in a similar way. An undecorated staff could be decorated (painting would be a nice option too) and become magical, a staff with a blade attached to the end could be made into a weapon... I mean, picture building a weapon from the basic shape, to the color, to the accessories that add damage. You could create anything you wanted to!

That is cool, and thanks for the staves / staffs thing.

So...how about adding manual use cast on strike enchantments as well. Like, "I cut you, and then I make your burn" instead of "Soultrap, Soultrap, Soultrap, Soultrap, Soultrap"

:nod:

Yeah, I forgot to touch on that. ^_^

But also a very good idea.

I'd like to see that (in fact, I'd like to see that in place of Morrowind's system of requiring a certain skill level to advance in rank); mage's should certainly be required to use magic in their jobs. However, I don't know if current guild structures would be ideal for it. Giving a player a quest that requires the use of a telekinesis spell, when the character is focused on Destruction and Conjuration, is a less-than-ideal situation.

I'm actually hoping that TESV will have players specialize on a specific branch of their guild, and that specialization will determine the everyday jobs the character gets (which can then require the use of a specific skill to advance), while the guild's over-arching story stays the same, and doesn't have to require specific skill usage. Add in the requirement to perform a set number of normal jobs to advance in rank, and I think you've got a more organic system of advancement than Morrowind did.

So if I make a Mages Guild character and, say, specialize in the Alteration School of the Guild, then the normal jobs I'd see might be exploration/archeology themed, and require the ability to magically open locks, or breathe water, or fly, or whatever. And since I picked the Alteration School, the game could reasonably assume that I'd have enough Alteration skill to perform the job.

Good idea and in the perfect game it might happen but I can't imagine 6 different questlines being created just for the MG.
Maybe it would be possible with randomly generated quests.

I would separate the guild by the jobs they perform rather than the types of magic they employ.

Their job types would be: Research (including the archaeology part mentioned before), Walk-in orders, and Internal Affairs (battlemages to self police the guild). Those were the major three types of quests I remember from the games in essence. The internal affairs would be everything from the "protect a mage from the guards till he can teleport away" to "kill the rebel mage" to "go collect the drunk mage who is tearing up the town" from Daggerfall. Those were fun.

Another idea specific to the Mages Guild (but familiar to anyone who has worked in academia) would be to face a choice between pure research and guild politics. Pure research gets you better spells,nifty items etc and a lot of bothersome interference from the guild. Guild politics gets you material resources and being able to order NPCs around.

What I was picturing was that the two would sorta go hand-in-hand.

Destruction mages act as basically the military arm of the guild, both handling the violet enforcement type things, and hiring out to clients as arcane mercenaries.

Restoration mages (predictably enough) act as healers, and their quests might be based around magically healing people, as well as seeking out cures to rare diseases

Alteration mages, as I mentioned in my previous post, act as explorer-archeologists with all their magic that lets them get places.

Conjurors perhaps get the job of monitoring and dealing with daedra and daedric cults.

Illusionists, with their ability to misdirect and screw with people's minds, get the dual role of acting as the face of the guild in many social situations, as well as acting as the guild's own personal spy network

Mystics took me a while, but what I came up with is that they would basically be a pseudo-monastic order that makes a career out of investigating reports of weird magical occurrences in the world.

I see a lot of good ideas here:

1) I think there needs to be a small separation between wizard’s staff and just the weapon -- but I think making a melee weapon and the using some of the same moves when used by a mage 'casts' magic (just an idea)
2) I think people are correct the mages staff should be a gun, but rather more like an off-hand weapon, a magic intensifier, and somewhat of a talisman

But I might add that how these staves work and how they look needs an overhaul too.

Staves can be:
- Imbued with magical powers: strengthening magic of the users, changing the effect of magic (making a fire spell to electrical damage), giving the users strength or abilities (buffs) either magical or physical or both
- Contain player spirits: Maybe some staves act as receptacle of the player’s spirit: break the staff and 70% of the strength of his/her abilities are lost until the weapon is repaired. That weapon is linked to the player so its loss is catastrophic but having it imbues the player with steady stats and a buff against harmful effects (This could be done for all weapons really -- a knight could put his spirit in to his sword, if the thief is willing he could put his spirit is a dagger, a forester could put his spirit into his bow, etc)
- Be effective weapons on their own and in use look stylish and cool.

But most off all I think we all agree staves need to have more animations then a mage using lit like a Kentucky Rifle or monk bashing it down on someone’s head repeatedly in the same animation. When used, it should look like it is doing the action intended. In terms of melee fighting I would defer to other people but I'd say you should have a few different moves for each 'form' of use: striking, poking/thrusting, pinning/throwing and blocking. To make it simple three strikes (vertical, horizontal, oblique), three pokes (low-foot, center-body, high-face), three pins or throws (low-sweep at feet, middle- chock hold, high-hook & throw over your head), and low, central na high block {Honestly, it should just give you many moves and look cool and be fairly easy to pull off....there is a way I'm sure.}

For mages I would use the same system in some ways magic could be divided into magic that is cast as strikes, pokes/thrusts, pinning/throws, and blocking. Buffs are blocking magic, so a melee-like blocking move is used. Fire balls are pokes/thrusts. Health/Poisoning would be shown as a...pinning motion?....I don't know...it should just makes some sense if you see what I'm saying.

Why not just let it be an off hand weapon in place of a shield? Mages staffs aren't meant for fighting.

If the staff uses some kind of spell, wouldn't a simple Morrowind style cast on use suffice?

i hope more sorts of weapons will arrive in TES. Spears and MORE WEAPONS. in oblivion we have like 8 different weapon types wich almost all are as boring. i want loads and loads of weapons! and ofc. the morrowind armor system! and HUGE shoulderpads!

Stupidly big pauldrons would cause me to facepalm. I'd like bigger ones for my warrior types, but only something like http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=8061. (not trying to promote myself, there )

Well, who says mage staffs aren't meant for fighting? In many fantasy setting and books staffs and used to club people over the head just as much as shoot out or assist with magic. A lot of people in this thread seem tired of the staffs being used a magic guns you point and shoot, it is just ONE point of view...but it is a valid point of view just as you POV is valid too.

Even if people have fought with Mage's staffs before, what's the problem with seperating them from melee staves? If I want to melee, I choose the melee option. If I want to be buffed, I choose the magic version.

IMO, it would actually be far too overpowered if I could do both with one staff. Especially since I guess that Mage's staffs would come enchanted at any level.

I, myself, dispise the magic guns that are apparently staffs in Oblivion. I want to be buffed from staffs if I want to.

I don't see how. If something is enchanted as a buffing item, it is presumably not also double-enchanted as an effective melee item. A magic staff you can use to bonk someone isn't really any different than being able to carry a powerful melee weapon and also be able to cast your unbuffed spells at any time, like we can in past games.

In past games, they where meant as melee weapons. Magic staffs would have a higher enchantment value than fighting staffs, I would think.

Then also generally lower damage stats?
Or speed?
Or reach?
etc...

I can't see the need for 2 types of staff
In MW staves had excellent enchant values and could be used as weapons but few warriors abandoned their assorted other weapons for staves
Unless encumberance rules were a lot stricter than in any of the other TES games (which might be a good idea) making people carry 2 staves is an inconsequential change anyway

i kinda agree with the poor quality of staves
first, they should let you create staves. you only get to create 1 when your in the mages guild. maybe you be able to get the wood for the staff and be able to make them. sure it would probably be really expensive but hey.
next, the staffs should look different, not all staffs should look like sticks this can go with making the staves again. maybe it is a stick with a magical rune to help make it look cool and boost skills. or maybe it is a metal rod with fancy designs and stuff
I also agree that there should be staves as for melee weapons, and magical weapons. for melee, they can be treated like spears. for magical people, they wont be as useful for fighting, but you should get boosts and each staff should produce different types of spells( 1 staff should use different spells- shoot a fireball and shoot a iceball. this can apply to buffer spells.)

Looking back to the old faiths, eh? I like it. In this case, let's look back to the old faith of Daggerfall. Be it a crystal, gem, wood, metal, in almost every design too, wand, staff, sword, or just in its raw form. You could enchant it...

This isn't a new topic. This isn't even new territory for Bethesda. They've done all this 14 years ago with a reasonable measure of success. They can do it again, and better, but- Hmm... Yeah, why didn't they do it better? Did someone fire a magical wooden tree root bazooka of forgetfulness at them while their magickal ring of "i'm not a fat, lazy game developer" was set to on cast enchanting that morning? Gods forbid, did they try to levitate out of that murky pit of "imagination is so last millenium"?!!!