I don't know about you guys, but one thing I *DESPISED* in Oblivion was the constant need to "plan" your character out.

Seriously, I want to be able to jump into the game, and not worry about whether I'm leveling "the right way". Worse still, is when you level a skill "too much". As detailed as Oblivion's world was, I wanted to break the disc every time I had to reload a previous save, purely because I have gained one too many points in some seemingly-arbitrary skill.

Also, don't do any stupid Perks like Fallout had. I loved the Perk system, I just mean certain Perks made others completely useless, and it was way too easy to "ruin" your character by selecting the wrong perks.

As far as we know attributes are out. But yeah some Perks were just stupid like Bloody Mess, Lawbringer, Cyborg, etc.

Some of us like to be able to "plan" our character. Hope they learned from FNV, where the creation is fast and you get into the game right away.

I don't want to sound harsh :brokencomputer but this is the dumbest suggestion I heard yet :facepalm:

how do you feel you have to plan your character.
pick what weapon skills you like
pick what magic you like to use
pick what armor you prefer
then add the other things you enjoy doing
i see no planning just choices

I can't imagine someone actually *liking* playing the game, then finding out that your character svcks because you didn't level "the right way".

Now, that's not to say that all characters should be equal; but at least limit it to things we can actively control. Things like Perks, as long as we don't have ones that become redundant down the road, are a great idea, because we actually know what to expect. But if I suddenly find out that my character's weaker because I've been using a two-handed Axe, instead of a Sword and Shield... yeah, not gonna be happy.

As someone who suffers from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, this may seem like a stupid subject to take issue with, but trust me -- Oblivion was a nightmare to play for me.

I understand what you are saying now Daemon. Elder Scrolls games are geared for individuals that don't have a lot of time on their hands. I usually take a week off when a game I really want to play is released.

the effective leveling was stupid, and it really did ruin the game for me when I found out, because I would only do those certain things to level up my person, and I always had that on my mind so it bothered me a lot

I think by "planning your character" and "leveling the right way", the OP means how your skill increases in each level decides what attributes will get a bonus when you level up. This has annoyed me as well, meaning I have to think through what skills to use most to get the best bonus to the attributes I want to increase. It shouldn't be impossible to find a better way of doing this.

I'm the same; I intend to dump ever spare second I can when the game comes out (unfortunately, I don't think my college professor's will give me a week off, though ). Still, I don't want to have to spend hours looking at guides "X skill gives Y amount of damage, but don't raise it more than Z amount before you level". I just want to be able to play, and use the skills I actually enjoy using, without being penalized down the road for not doing it "the right way". Oblivion and Morrowind felt kind of broken in that way, in the sense that if you planned your character it was a breeze, but if you focused on "social skills", you were a chump.

Like I said, I'm real OCD when it comes to this stuff, so being able to play how I want, and actively choose Perks that I want -- again, without fear of Perks that would become redundant down the road -- would totally make this game a dream. I've always been fascinated with Nordic culture and architecture, so I feel like everything else about this game has been tailor-made for me

No we don't.

Fer chrissakes. :facepalm:

Exactly! Obviously, it makes sense to use a Shield if you want to have high enough skill in that area to use it effectively. My issue was when I had to use skills I didn't necessarily want to use, or in some cases *stop* using a skill I liked, simply to balance my character properly with his bonuses.

Unless you tuned the difficulty slider to bare minimum (which might as well have been cheating), the game could be rendered almost unplayable if you weren't at least somewhat mindful if skill bonuses. And having to worry about things like that, in an otherwise wonderful game, just felt like... well, a punch below the belt, if I'm honest.

I'm sure Skyrim will be amazing, just as Oblivion was. I just hope Bethesda alleviates it of some of the nagging little issues that Oblivion was plagued with.

Actually, as far as we know (which is nothing regarding attributes) they could be in or hidden or out or entirely different. That's why the term "As far as we know" was used. Because we don't KNOW anything on them yet.

Anyways we DO know that there is no class choosing, level ups are still based on skill gains, and we get perks when we level up.

I call the habit that people developed in Oblivion the "Major Is Minor" phenomenon.

I think that having just 10 skill-ups should denote a level-up, and then it tallys up the skills and ups their associated attributes at level-up. Then you choose which of the three vitals you boost (the quantity of which depends on associated attributes), and then you choose your perk, and then you're off to level-up again.

Instead of having major/minor/misc stat setup, you'd choose two specializations out of the Warrior/Mage/Thief triumvirate (or choose one twice), and those give skill advancement rate boosts (with "choose one twice" doubling the boost). Racial skill inclinations would also give skill advancement rate boosts too.



The term was followed up with a use of "they aren't there anymore", which by your own post you admit may not be true

The only thing I have seen is a lack of mention of them. The fact that numerical values denoting innate statistics of a character is a staple of the RPG genre means it could very well be an understood fact that they're there. However, some insist through some eleven-dimensional contortion of logic that their lack of mention means they don't exist; that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Which aggravates me to no end when I see it asserted.

*doublepost, delete*

I'm very bad at "proper" leveling in almost any RPG I play. On top of that, I use Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, and play a Khajiit mage (not a very complimenting race for the class). I never had any real issue leveling in Oblivion. Sure, maybe I needed to wait a few extra levels than "recommended" for certain quests, and I had to move slowly and not be gung-ho all the time, but there was only one quest that I couldn't eventually get through on normal difficulty.. and that quest was the timed run through the Oblivion realm with the seige crawler. And the problem from that mainly came from how the Oblivion realms were all leveled (as OOO didn't fix them up), so those few extra levels I gave myself as an advantage were lost.

Incidentally, that's why I really don't like level scaling. It assumes me and the game are on equal ground, when we may not be. I may need a couple extra levels to get comfortable against certain enemies or certain areas, but the game would take those couple of levels and make itself more difficult, making me lose that needed advantage.