Let's be honest. The bird imagery of the Ayleids was created long before KotN came out. See Proweler's Symbolism article. Their shtick looks like birds and Aurorans look like demons and beasts. Bethesda didn't create a set of armor and motifs based on a creature that wasn't developed yet. There is a good reason for Aurorans looking like they do- the artist was clever enough to create a variation of a theme. And rusty iron weapons in their hands would have looked odd.

Aurorans don't have their armor stuck to their skin?

I mean, they aren't walking suits of armor?

I'm well aware of the bird motiff. But Meridia didn't model her Aurorans after the Ayleids, and Elven armor looks too much like Aurorans to be coincidence, especially in light of the Ayleids' pact with Meridia. But then again, Stormtrooper armor was modeled after Clone Trooper armor in Star Wars fiction, but in reality, the Clone Trooper armor design was based on Stormtrooper armor.


They have daedra hearts, so they probably have flesh underneath the armor. But other than that, we know very little about these mysterious Daedra.

The artists working on KotN would have made Aurorans fit in with their Ayleid surroundings regardless of any pact. You say it can't be a coincidence, which is a non-statement since you don't go on to say what that means. Are you suggesting that the entire Ayleid Empire based its equipment on Meridia's blueprints? Because that is the conclusion I see your post drawing. If it isn't, then stop making me have to guess, and finish your argument.

Like it or not, it's retroactive continuity, so deal with it.

What is? You haven't said anything. You are either too craven to say "I think..." or have confused communication with insinuation.

Similarity in color scheme does not constitute a retcon of anything, bucko.

Not just color, but the weapons, similar swirl designs around the legs, similar looking boots, and to a lesser degree, the helmets. Ayleidic armor seems to have Auroran inspiration about it.

Auroran armor seems to be inspired by Ayleid Armor. Meridia sent her servants to fight in the armies of Umaril and tailored their appearance accordingly, so the daedra would appear to be a seamless part of the elven hosts.

That possibility is a bit better then Meridia sending Umaril some random golems she had lying around and an gets an entire race and civilization of independent, antagonistic city states falling all over each other to copy the equipment of White Gold Tower.

Or, some Bethesda artist needed to create a monster that players would encounter in Ayleid ruins, while fighting an Ayelid sorcerer, using period equipment, and decided to compare notes with what was already there. It was probably even the same guy.

Like the Aureals, the Aurorans' very names suggest that they're golden, as the Latin name for gold is Aurum. Besides, it makes more sense for mortals to model their armor after Daedra, than the other way around.

Also, Umaril was "bathed in [Meridian light]," suggesting his appearence is due to his pack with Meridia.

And as for Ayleid equipment, the Ayleids existed long after Pelinal defeated Umaril, giving plenty of time to still develop inspiration.

http://writing.colostate.edu/guides/reading/toulmin/list3.cfm
Here we have the first item on that list.


Because "bathed in Meridian Light" is far too nebulous to put to your own uses without extreme dishonesty, and the rest is just more baseless could-be-so that doesn't even address my statement. I don't see what the latin word gold has to do with anything, but consider that Auriel also sounds similar, and Auriel is what the bird represents- ascension to heaven.

Both Aurorans and Aureals are named after Aurum, because they're golden. Either way, with Auriel, while it sounds similar, it doesn't seem to be connected with the Aurorans, partly because he's not a daedra, and partly because there is nothing suggesting he has some sort of connection with gold as the two species of daedra do. But there was daedric influence in the Ayleid lands. And either way, while the Daedra weren't the usual Ayleid pantheon, Umaril was not on good terms with the Divines, yet on good terms with Daedra.

Auriel is important. Look at the statues in the game. An elf in ELVEN armor ascending to heaven with a bird coming from his shoulders, trampling Oblivion, which is below him.

The Ayleids loved that snazzy stuff so much that they put Daedric armor on their statues of Auriel?

Regardless, I don't wee why this is worth continuing when you don't seem to have the guts to actually own up to the idea and tell me that you believe it happened, instead of wrangling over whether it could have happened, which lies on the sixteenth tier or chronic pointlessness. If, at this moment, you feel like pointing out how speculation, opinion, and arguing over unprovable aspects of fiction is pointless, then take your own advice and leave.

Perhaps the question is why elven armor looks the same when they weren't united. And as I said before, it's very possible that those statues, and most elven armor, were built after Umaril was killed; the Ayleids existed in Cyrodiil for quite some time afterwards. After all, Umaril was killed very early on, his death didn't signal the end of the Ayleids.


First, you started this debate with me. As is the case with almost every debate between us. Second, I do believe that there was Daedra worship among the Ayleids, even if it wasn't the dominant religion. Third, I'm not going to concede to the idea that there was no Daedra worship among the Ayleids, which is what I've been arguing for. Fourth, neither you nor I are willing to concede to the other.

The first answer is: it's a game, and not a very inspired one. The second is that the Ayleids were still united in cultural identity, to a point. They had a Tower, after all, and a good'un. Daedra worship was not a defining aspect that caused schisms, it was more of a pragmatic business relationship, as Daedra worship has always been portrayed. They were still just another strain of Aldmeri, which is why I find profound and universal influence from the Daedra to this extent to be unlikely and choose to go with a different explanation.


I thought we were arguing about where the armor comes from. That and a meta-debate wherein I continue to try and point out why your posts cause these [censored]-storms.

A bit late, but I think we both know that the reason Ayleid architecture are so homogeneous is the same as the reason for there only being one kind of steel armour in the game, or as to why all peasants in Cyrodiil only build farmhouses in three different ways.