So, I've been thinking about the whole "insert anti-mutant F.E.V into the purifier and poison the potomac and tidal basin agianst mutants" plan of Eden's and I've come to the conclusion that it could have the effect of terminating vault dwellers and enclave forces as well.

First, considering that humanity is 8 percent virus, and that before the war it is probable that new forms of retrovirus's have come about; is it possible that the modified F.E.V would target those that have difference in their D.N.A's viral components? Knowing that its targeting mutants, is it possible that the F.E.V would register those with difference in their viral components as mutants? Or does it specifically target certian mutations and victims of other F.E.V strains?

Secondly, a number of people carry harmless point mutations, and may have been vault dwellers who passed them on to other vault dwellers. (Example of point mutation: "I am a bog" becomes "I am a dog") Would such harmless mutations, (possibly caused by the ridiclous proliferation of nuclear materials) trigger the F.E.V in what should be unmutated individuals?

Finally, since we have no knowledge of the quality of the modified F.E.V, is it not possible that it will cause rampant death among unintended victims?

Considering the wonderful success rate they had with the previous FEV strains, I'd be willing to bet it'd backfire drastically just like you're hinting at. Even if it did work... how do we know it won't stunt natural evolution?

Depends on whether those that do manage to live can pass F.E.V on to their children.

If the common effect of all FEV strains is some degree of quadruple-helix based phenotypes on the cellular level, then you don't need to turn to any viral components if you indiscriminately target those peoples. Or you can like get to an F.E.V. clinic. Yo, you're F.E.V. seropositive!

so it was intended to kill everyone not drinking recycled piss?

In Fallout 2 it's made clear that almost the entirety of the human race had been "contaminated" with radiation after the great war, and some with the FEV air-borne strain (obviously that only happened in the West Coast or some other place so prolly not the entire US is affected by air-borne FEV). They are all "infected" and may or may not carry non-appearance-altering mutations. Also from the Fallout 2 game (Fallout 3 game doesn't seem to be largely populated by knowledgeable NPCs, hence you're left guessing), it's stated that no vault dwellers are infected at all (because vaults are built to keep things in and out).

Unless, they live in faulty Vaults, which the game also suggested that some vaults aren't perfect (which is why you find dead people in dead vaults); and in Fallout 2 it's a fact that those faulty vaults just went straight [b]dead[/i] after the war. So I don't see how any of them in the "good" vaults could pass what they don't have to other vault dwellers. Bad vaults would kill all the dwellers (they either allow radiation to leak "in" or not, and after a while of exposure people either die or not), or logic would dictate if they're smart they'd leave, which would then void the condition that make them vault dwellers - hence not in the perfect-not-infected population. The above is just to clear out some erroneous information and what really bugged me (not your fault, not everyone has to have played Fallout 2); hope that helps.

Here's my speculation on the anti-mutatnt FEV (layman speculation that doesn't help) - if the anti-FEV was made to target FEV (which is a virus for those like me who forgot or don't know the acronym), then most likely it'd only kill those who's been infected with FEV/contains FEV in their body (I mean, viruses are also life forms too right? It's not just a set of parameters such as degree of mutation). Now if the anti-FEV is made to target certain mutations (and those mutations are common ones and not very specific) that are brought on by FEV, then likely there will be some "casualties" who doesn't have FEV but has the mutation, and hence would be terminated. If the targeted mutations are very specific and would only happen with people who really has FEV, then there are chances that no "casualties" would exist (though with science, anything could happen, and that means 1 out of a million could still have very specific mutation brought on my FEV but doesn't have FEV).

That's my 2 cents and pardon my ramble. Aside from that what do you think?

They may not be infected with F.E.V, but you'll be suprised how an indivdual can have his own little genetic quirks. An example would be that about 8% of our D.N.A is made out of old viruses. Now imagine if people had varying viral components in their D.N.A (Viruses don't need a nuclear hollocaust to change). It is quite possible that anyone who registered a difference in their viral components would be targeted by the modified F.E.V.

I don't believe I provided any erroneous information. please give an example.


Viruses generally aren't considered living organisms, due to their need to use living cells to reproduce. IF it targets specifically F.E.V infected individuals, then deaths will be limited, but not every mutant has to be an Forced Evolutionary Virus based mutant.

Didn't know that. Learn something new everyday.



Oh I didn't know you meant natural-occuring mutation instead of radiation mutation resulting from the nuclear fallout, hence leading me to think that you thought vault-dwellers are generally infected. (Not erroneous information that you might have provided, rather, might have received)



Which is what I was saying, if I remember correctly. The second part is very true, though I meant just the FEV-infected individuals (in my hypothesis).

And damn now I've gone and spoil some of the ending for myself

PS. There also seem to be some confusion among the original developers (Fallout 1 & 2) themselves about how the ghouls came to be. Harold was supposed to be FEV-generated ghouls while the rest in the world aren't, hence I also had the ghouls in mind (as well as super mutants of course) when I thought of "mutants". Otherwise, one developer claimed that the ghouls are the product of FEV & radiation mixed together, another said they were just radiation. The former later recanted his statement. -This from the wiki which I was reading to refresh my memory.

I'm guessing it also doesn't help that fallout 3 suggests that ghouls are radiation based. Still, I wish they gave more information on the modified F.E.V. Targeting parameters (theoretical), testing results, whether or not the only way to not get killed is drink recycled water etc.

The Enclave wants to kill only mutants. The thing is, their definition of mutants includes al non-Enclave, non-Vault humans.

And non-nuclear holocaust mutations could result in false positives in vault and enclave populations.

Here's an example of a failed FEV subject....

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn128/HaakonXCI/Screenshots/ScreenShot197.jpg

Thats not all that relevant...

:sadvaultboy: :shrug: Thought it was, sorry

It seems the Enclave has a pure race thing going on and the FEV you are given is designed to destroy anyone who has been mutated in the slightest due to the radiation above ground. That's why the President tells you that it probably won't kill you since you were underground most of your life. His main goal was to whipe the earth of impure creatures and start over with pre-war type humans. Which is a noble goal but the means are horrible.

If the modified F.E.V virus is able to detect mutation and eliminate it, it obviously needs to be potent enough to put down a supermutant's immune system which I would assume would be pretty friggin hardy. Much hardier than that of a normal Human or Ghoul or damn near anything. And seeing how it is implied that everyone and everything has been exposed to some sort of mutation, I would expect that this virus would in fact create an environment that is entirely hostile to anything but a Radroach. If it's the goal of the Enclave to create a Radroach utopia then they must be stopped. We cannot afford to let the United States of America be ruled by a giant cockroach............we just got rid of one lol.

And yet the player has probably acquired the ability to heal himself when at advanced radiation sickness, Harold's F.E.V strain, and other mutations. And then theres all the targeting mishaps that could happen, as outlined in my first post.

Some spoilers here.



The virus you're given by Eden was considered "too extreme" by Autumn. Which is why Eden wants you to do it since it seems Autumn will not. From that conversation it seems Autumn holds a much less biased view of humanity than Eden. Autumn must have known that the FEV would have probably wiped out 95% of all humanity who drank it. Autumn probably was of the mind that only ghouls and super mutants needed to die.

Interesting thing is that in Fallout 2 modified FEV killed all enclave scientists, while leaving pretty much just power armor guys alive + player who had anti-'modified FEV' injected into him (i believe president had it too). Scientists giving player that injection needed to over-spoken to believe that various lifeforms (humans, ghouls, mutants) in wasteland were advanced while "Enclave" life-form wasn't up-to date anymore.

Or does my memory do trick in this? I am pretty sure that some sort vaccine needed to injected to subject for him to survive from the stuff... If it was modified FEV at all in Fallout2.

Oh really? I was wondering why Autumn told them to have me shot on site.

You remember correctly. The modified FEV from Fallout 2 wasn't at all anti-FEV, it was modified FEV made to kill all humans on the planet that hadn't received the vaccine. The only reason the FEV was choses was, I belive, because it only affected humans, so plants and animals and stuff would be a-ok.

We can chalk it up to Eden and his scientists not knowing anything about genetics. I don't see why it wouldn't kill everyone. The usual way of not dying from an infectious disease in resistance, which can happen because of Acquired immunity, or the viruses shear incompatibility with receptor sites. Don't know why irradiated people all would somehow pop-up with new receptor sites that would be the death of their super-mutant and ghoul friends as well.

Also to another question.

F.E.V can be passed through the lineage. It is shown in talking deathclaw populations. However, that whole sterility thing gets in the way of that for super-mutants. In any case, the most luck I have in explaining the blasted stuff is an endogenous retroviral strain derived from polio that was used to target the hypothalamus and pituitary glands because of the difference in receptor sites. This can cause hyper-secretion of GH (Growth hormone), testosterone, and Adrenocorticoids leading to increase in size, and ferocity in intense situations. Hypo-secretions of things like Gonadotropin that cause the formation of secondary six characteristics may occur, a main hormone being Follicle stimulating hormone, which spurs the production of gametes in both males and females. Yet there can still be the possibility of maintaining a woman and mans features estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, ect. Since the master found problems with the intelligence factor of F.E.V. vectors that were irradiated, there could be a thyroid side effect causing huge amounts of triiodiothrynone and thyroxin, causing the metabolic rate of the vector to immediately sky-rocket, consequently leading to the development of a fever, which could have led to convulsions and encephalopathy as a result. Just a musing, however. But there is no real evidence of any strain that is communicable from vector to vector, so endogenous retrovirus is what I'm gonna stick with.