Like most people who play Morrowind, I've never really been impressed with the loldreaded Vivec Puzzle Canol. Even without magic, "solving" this quest is a joke. What I want to see is a mod that makes the Puzzle Canol into a true challenge...something worthy of the name and the warnings. I've tried the one that's a part of "Redesigned Vivec" and it was all right, but still a bit too easy. Not to mention that it's hard to avoid conflicts with how much it changes the city. On the other hand, the Puzzle Canol mod isn't what I'm looking for either. It's too much of a cheat, and too much of a "fighting mod".


What I want is a Puzzle Canol that...well, puzzles me. Something challenging, that actually makes me think a bit to get through it, as opposed to using combat to slow things down, or blindly stumbling to success (as the previously stated do). Ideally, I want to see the puzzle canol give me a tough time, without ever facing anything more threatening than a slaughterfish, rat, or crab. Maybe there's no mod like this, but should anyone want to make one, here's what I think a good puzzle canol might be like.

• Multiple Levels: The greatest disappointment with the vanilla PC is that you can just walk straight to the last chamber. The ideal mod would make sure you earn that chance to drown yourself. In fact, if there had to be "rest stations" with a water source, food, and a cot for NoM players, that would impress me.
  
• No Cutting in Line: To follow up on there being multiple levels, set it up so you have to start at the beginning. Either make the lower doors "exit only" to let lost people out, or set them up to be "locked from the inside" so that you can't use a lower door outside until you've gone to it inside and pressed a switch on the inside.
  
• Tricks Aren't For Kids: Each level should have its own puzzle. Not just a maze but some trick to solving it. Even if it's just a "light's out" style gate puzzle. More than that, things should get mixed up a bit, with various different tests employed.
  
• Apply Some Logic: In theory, the puzzle canol is supposed to be tried by pilgrims all the time. It should look like it. Not necessarily in being littered or anything like that, but in design. It should be made to be solved, with each level having clues on how to pass built in, if you think to look for them.
  
• I'm a Pilgrim, Not a Soldier: As I said before, keep combat light. Good tests involve using your head, or the skills that the Temple favors. Bad ones involve terms like "boss monster". Combat should be limited to token ritual "gimme" fights, and slaying common pests...for food.

sounds good let us know when you finish it :goodjob:

This'd be interesting with the puzzles centered around a particular saint...
Maybe a trap with a giant boulder that, if you stand your ground/believe ALMSIVI will save you, does no harm but otherwise kills you
Might just give try it...

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=1086 answers this problem. The rewards are a little bit powerful though

Isn't that one full of monsters?

The opening poster mentioned this mod already, and it is not in the spirit of the pilgrim.

I would absolutely enjoy a mod like this, great idea! Imagine a puzzle-ridden canol maze where at the end of a lengthy quest you finally reach the shrine..

On a side note, when I first heard of a puzzle canol (maybe they even call it a maze somewhere) under the palace of vivec that many have tried and failed (not sure if this is my fantasy or really mentioned), I really thought of a labyrinth so big that it would fade in the distance with the most powerful daedra hidden in it. A maze like the one from the Death Gate Cycle, or also in various other media. This is not what the puzzle canol, filled with tricks and puzzles, should be, but maybe also a nice idea tailored for fighters, adventurers and treasure hunters.

Lol. I wish.

Believe me, if I thought I could take on this project myself, the title here would say [Wip]. I was more posting my super-unrealistic wishlist out of extreme optimism. That and the hope someone might know of an obscure mod somewhere that fits the bill. Right now, I have more on the backburner than I have backburners, and a major mod in the works as well.

Though in the mean time, I may actually do some sketches of what I can think of.

You do that, I might just build it
I'm nearly done with what I was working on (not Morrowind related btw) anyway.

It's a [Req] Midgetalien. Not a Wip. ^_^

But yes, I was very disappointed when I reached the centre of the puzzle canol.

This sounds like a great idea...pilgrims would not be swordsmen anyways.

I know, but a little encouraging to get others to mod doesnt hurt anyone now does it :grad:

Sorries. ^_^ Of course, it doesn't hurt. ^_^

Whenever I read this sort of thread I become nostalgic for the Dungeon Crawls in Ultima 8. http://gigi.nullneuron.net/ultima/u8/walk/birth5.jpg http://bp0.blogger.com/_3WacBST0pXU/R4FPWybSeHI/AAAAAAAAA4U/SswunktcO1o/s1600-h/Malichir.png, and weird objects to find, such as the http://gigi.nullneuron.net/ultima/u8/items/morph.gif.

This sort of thread made me remember REALM OF IMPOSSIBILITY...so I went and looked it up on youtube...the graphics svckED ROYALLY!

I do have a few basic ideas for puzzles. Being as I play a lot of games like Myst, that helps me. I'm terrible at placing things in the construction set, however. It seems design, and to an extent balance, are my only real talents. But here is what I'm thinking:

• Gate Puzzle
  
• Scavenger Hunt
  
• ????
  
• Profit

Okay, just kidding.

Really, if I was going to plan this, first of all, as I said I would make all but the gates on the first level locked. To give some leeway, only on the outside, and normal locks. Say lock level 70. So you can leave if you wish, but you need to be a skilled mage or thief to cheat. Counterbalancing this, add in some of those "hidden treasures" people talk about. One to each level but the shrine level...which gets moved clear to the bottom. For the first three levels, a minor treasure each. Say, a random scroll, a random ring or amulet, and a belt with a minor CE Resist Common Disease on the third, given an appropriately religious name. For the fourth level, have two relatively good unique items, but both better hidden than the other three (All of them having some kind of hidden switches that must be pressed.

So a breakdown of the rewards:

• Leveled Scroll
  
• Leveled Trinket
  
• Pilgrim's Belt (CE Resist Common Disease 20%)
  
• Hand of Mercy (Glove, Restore Health 20-100pts on touch, low charges), and Saintstone (Details below.)

Now, for the last reward, the Saintstone, I might need some advice. First of all, I'm thinking this will use the model of a tribunal shrine that's been shrunk down. It will basically be a portable Shrine of the Tribunal. Equip it to you and the shrine script runs, with a few modifications (I think I know how to do this, but I'm not sure) so that you never need to make a donation, but it won't work if you've been expelled from the Temple or aren't a member. If I can't do this, I'll likely apply the name to a CE Restore Magica/Fatigue 1pt/sec amulet.

Anyway, I'm not sure what puzzles would go to what level, but what I've come up with so far is these:

• On one level there would be a number of gates. Each gate also makes several other gates move. You have to toggle them in the correct sequence or you'll be running in circles...so basically it would be a blatant ripoff of one of the puzzles in "Skies of Arcadia".
  
• Another level has a number of stones with torches set into the tops, labeled with the names of common Morrowind creatures. Getting to a few out of the way places you will hear creature sounds. Back at the statue chamber, each image has a switch that can be pressed. Press it and you hear that creature's sound and a flame lights or goes out. When only the correct animals are lit, the way is opened. (For super awesomeness, does anyone knows a way to make this setup random every time?)
  
• For one chamber, an old riddle with a twist. There are two doors blocked by energy barriers. Near them are two NPC Daedra. Either will inform you that you may ask either of them one question, but one question only to decide which door to take, and one of them always lies (this is in fact itself a lie, as you may ask more than one question, and both always lie). You get such questions as "Which of you lies?" ("He does."), "Which of you tells the truth?" ("I do.") "Which of these is not the way out." ("Neither." Any door takes you out of the room.) "Which door would the other say I need to take?" ("Any of them. Just leave, Mortal." Not actually a lie, just an insult.) The twist is this, between the two Daedra is a Temple shrine. You have the options "Right Door" "Left Door" "Ask for a blessing" from the shrine. Either door will open that path...which leads out of the Puzzle Canol. Asking for a blessing gets you teleported to the next floor, with the message "By faith, the way is made clear." (This would make a good first level, and could even set a tone for the canol, with each level giving a moral or lesson and teleporting the Challenger.
  
• For another, I could see stealing a page from Piratelord and using a maze with torches that go out as you get near.

No idea for the last. A leap of faith would be cool, but that's already covered by the original test.

There's also my Puzzle Canol mod, which is more puzzly and less uber than that other one, from what I remember. [/humbleplug]

Now there's one that my searching hadn't found before. Sounds very similar to what I am trying to do. Thank you, this is exactly the kind of response I was hoping for. :foodndrink:

Nexus only. That would explain why I didn't find this one. My suggestion would be to upload it to PES, where it could get more attention and comments. Considering that there's only 1 Puzzle Canol mod on PES currently, I think it would be a welcome addition to their database. (more variety is always good imo)

One question though: Does your mod changes the Temple trial at the Puzzle Canol itself or is it a bonus challenge unrelated to the Temple questline (like the other Canol mod)?

I have to agree with Logorouge. Definitely needs an upload to PES.

As for the other question, I intend to just play it and find out, though I wonder.... Crustacean, would you be willing to do a revised version, using some of my ideas? (In particular, I don't think that armor is a very "Temple" reward. And I had fun thinking up how to hide/distribute the prizes I came up with.)

I personally won't be making any changes (or uploading to PES - don't have an account), I'm afraid.

The armor is quite 'Vivec', I felt - defender of Morrowind, rogue and warrior, crusader against Dagoth Ur, patron of the Buoyant Armigers... (it's Bonemold - you don't get much more Morrowind than that! It's not uber or 'moddy'). Were you expecting something more 'monk'y?

I have to admit, Monk-y was more my thought. I'm a fan of FFX, so I sort of approached the idea of the Puzzle Canol from the perspective of the Chambers of the Fayth. A series of tests to be passed, and in each an extra task to be accomplished that yields some additional useful item. So I tried to think up my items to be useful to most people, with value increasing as the tests grow harder.

That's exactly what I was expecting the first time I entered the Puzzle Canol, mainly because I played FFX just before I started playing Morrowind, so I still had the memories of the Chambers of the Fayth in mind. Ah, the puzzle-solving fun. If Crustacean's mod is anything like that, let me know.

As soon as my new PC gets to Vivec, I will be making a full report on how it looks. Though even if it isn't like that, I think anything more brain-intensive than "go to floor three" would be fine.

One other thing to note is that if you use the version of my mod which is compatible with PirateLord's Redesigned Vivec, you also get the added challenge of his complex labyrinth which he replaces the Puzzle underworks with. That's my prefered way of playing it (but obviously requires that you accept the rather dramatic redesign of Vivec)

Ah, so that's why there was a compatibility version. I have to admit, while still easier than I hoped to solve, Piratelord's was the best Puzzle Canol I tried before posting this thread. The main thing prompting me to look for another was that, sadly, I don't want to accept a dramatic redesign of Vivec. I fear it would be too conflicting in my mod loadout.