Do I still need to do this? I remember over a year ago I did, does it still apply now?

One of the patches (1.6 IIRC) fixed the crash-on-modded-cell load bug, so no, you don't have to do it.

I thought mods with custom navmeshes still needed them?

I've never noticed any issues, and I'm definitely running mods with custom navmeshes.

I've noticed that most mods that you download don't need to be master updated, however, I have a couple mods in my load order that would not work without it being run. (save game crashes)

And they didn't come in an esm format?

It's still advised to use it, if only for compatibility reasons. After a masterupdate, some mods will work together that wouldn't without it.
Beside, the only annoyance with it is that you have to masterrestore your load list if you wan't to modify an esp with the geck.

Masterupdate is a way to stabilize your mod list without any real inconvenience.

Except having to delete the backup files from the data folder

You definitely still want it. I've seen with my own eyes where it stops repeating game crashes, and, it's necessary for the navmesh (NPC pathfinding) to work in some mod-added interior areas.

This. It has this power.




But, so OMG, this!

Yes, bloody awful. Especially if you have to restore/update multiple times if you're actually working on a mod with interior navmeshes. I end up with a huge list of multiple backups for every single mod I use.

Not all of themt. I don't auto-CTD with one of my own house mods, and that has custom pathing. There's not much pathing in it though, so that could be part of the reason I suppose.

I just did a master update, now my most recent save crashes when I try to load it

If you use master restore you should be able to load your recent save.

I wouldn't recommend using master update on a current game. Also to be careful of using it on esp's that have other esp's as masters. It broke a patch that I was using back in the day when I was giving Phalanx a try.

So in an effort to reduce crashing, I am trying this Master Update thing.

Problem is, once I try to rename FO3Edit.exe into FO3masterUpdate.exe, it causes an error. What gives?

I too don't recommend it.

If mods don't work together then one has to go. Not everything can be compatible.

I've tried it twice when having serious issues and neither time did it resolve my crashes - removing problem mods did. With the right load order I never have crashes and I do not run a small load order.

It was a fix designed to address a mistake made by bethesda that they themselves corrected.

I've read over Tarrants arguments (which are the most persuasive), but still think that the esm/esp relationship is what bethesda intended (despite patch 1.5) and that the all esm approach presents other issues.
But I'd like to see a more cogently constructed argument for and against it.

Of note my character is the lone wanderer (meaning no companions) which, I don't doubt, skews my view.

Jobesky-

Make sure you have the 'don't rename this file' thingy in the same folder.

To Masterupdate or no...

Maserupdate in my view really was not needed, until I had frequent save game crashes. Master updating seemed to solve this.

However, on a mod like Megaton Snipers, masterupdate made it unstable and crashed the game frequently, so I excluded that mod from the process, but re add it to the mod list when its playtime.

Also Masterupdate seems to solve the problem where Mod NPCs have trucker tans, that is their face is one color and their exposed limbs are another.

Elminister tells people in the strongest terms: use it, it fixes a lot, even things we may not understand. It's not just about the 1.5 patch.

The problems that FO3MasterUpdate fixes were not meant to be thrust upon us by Bethesda. Like, how the navmesh in a number of .esp-added interior cells is very broken, and there's no mention of this in Bethesda's navmesh tutorials. I checked the .exe versions for this navmesh bug, and found that it is not a 1.5 problem, it existed from the very first game release, the unpatched one on my CD.

White skin but dark faces on mod-added NPCs - this was a problem introduced in 1.5 and repaired by Fo3MasterUpdate.

Verified decreasing of crashes. I had a save which would auto-blow-up the moment I loaded it. Every time. I ran FO3MasterUpdate against my mod list, and it was fixed.

I do not see the sense in discouraging anyone from using FO3MasterUpdate as a general policy.

Saying it may fix things we do not understand isn't convincing. What does that really say?

Trying to use it with mods that were giving me issues and I had the same issues of constant crashing even when I did use it:
Shady sands is still unusable.
Destruction is still unusable.
several other mods I'm not going to list because it could just be that they are not compatible with my load order.

I heard the wondrous stories did some reading and at two separate times and in the course of two separate play-throughs of the game I tried it and the same mods being loaded resulted in instant crashes and even with masterupdate the answer was to remove those mods.

As far as Navmesh goes - again I may be biased as I really am not much of a companion user. I've seen your video of the one area you made an esm to fix, but really I've yet to see weird NPC navigation - what will it look like in game if not fixed (generally and not just that area)?

So far trucker tans don't bother me.

As Katnap said though isn't there an issue where if an esp is dependent upon another esp that this relationship could be damaged?
Then what of the general idea of the role of esm files versus esp files? Introducing items and placing items?
I've heard other arguments - lost the links though.

Also not sure how Gary Bash would treat all esm in creating bashed patch.

And finally really since I had the same crashing with masterupdate as without and I find it a pain I go without.