I get a crash on startup if I have All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp checked. I imported the cells and set the load order correctly. I also have the beta version of the script extender- however the game crashes regardless of whether it is run with or without it.

Any ideas?

The relevant sections of the readme:

1.) Rebuild your Bashed Patch, selecting "Import Cells" from "All Natural.esp". If you have installed them, also select "All Natural ? SI.esp." and "Import Cells" from "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp".

2.) Explaining "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp"

This is a special .esp that enables other mods to have the interior cell climates that All Natural provides. You MUST use Wrye Bash for this to work. All you need to do is when you rebuild your Bashed Patch, select "Import Cells" from "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp" ("All Natural.esp" will also be selected under "Import Cells"). Do not activate the .esp but simply have it import cells into the Bashed Patch as just explained. This .esp should load just before your Bashed Patch or at least close to the end of your load list. Do not worry about the red colored box for the .esp or the claims about missing masters. You can read more about filter .esps in the Wrye Bash documentation if you wish.

3.) Load Order

All Natural Base.esm (Can go anywhere in the .esm list)
?

?
All Natural - Real Lights.esp (Load before All Natural.esp)
All Natural.esp (Load early after the UOP and with other environmental-type mods)
All Natural - SI.esp (If you want Shivering Isles support)
(Choose one weather plugin from the "02" folders)
Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp (If using Kvatch Rebuilt)
...
Nascosto Isles 3.esp
All Natural - Nascosto Isles Weather Patch.esp
...
All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp (Load just before your Bashed Patch)
Bashed Patch.esp (Remember to Import Cells from All Natural.esp & All Natural ? Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp into this!)

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

"Do not activate the .esp." "Activate" means check (well, it is really the other way around I guess.) Do not activate that plugin at any time, not while building the bashed patch, not ever. Install OBSE. That has nothing to do with this particular plugin.

Thanks for catching this, you've done it a few times IIRC.

Tomlong is right, you must have the Filter Patch unchecked but Import Cells from it into the Bashed Patch.

It is too bad adding "Do Not Activate Ever" would make the plugin name too long.

Utterly confused. Why does the load order matter if the esp is not selected?

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

The Filter mod in question ADDS content so it would have to come After any mod it references..So ya Load order is extremely important. IF you look to the Right in Bash you will see Some of the Boxes are checked and some are not , the ones that are checked are mods IT found in your Load order and is making changes to those mods. Hence the reason it will most likely always be RED also. Cause some of thos mods you wont ever install.

Basically this.

The Filter Patch works as a normal patch would, but it makes use of Wrye Bash magics to only apply itself to the mods you have installed, of all the mods it can patch. It's kind of like an all-in-one patch that Wrye Bash can use bits from as it needs. Activating it though, will mean that it follows normal mod plugin rules, which means that you must have all of the mods it depends on, which very few people, if anyone, does. Hence it needs to stay deactivated for Wrye Bash to get to work its magic, but the load order is still important, as with a normal patch plugin.

Okay, leave unchecked. Thanks for the help. Although I read the instructions many times and obviously this point was clear to me. Perhaps the readme should have it displayed more prominently.

Thanks again.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

It's displayed about as prominently as it can be. The readme says not to activate it, in bold, and the description field on the plugin itself says not to activate it. There's not much else we can do because it won't let us use neon red flashing letters and annoying sound bites to announce it.

If it were this discussion would not be happening.

I believe you're refering to this portion of the text:

Do not activate the .esp but simply have it import cells into the Bashed Patch as just explained.

I interpret that to mean not to activate it within Wrye Bash as that is what it's talking about. A quick search for activate didn't reveal any do no activate it within the game messages.

I just checked the esp itself and it does say quite prominently to not activate it. But obviously I missed that. The section in the readme should say the same thing.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

I was attempting to edit my post but apprently replied instead and there does not appear to be a delete button.

My final thought on the matter was this: The readme needs to be more clear on the do not activate point. While it does say it on the esp I and most likely others don't usually look to the esp for install instructions.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

Those instructions are perfectly clear. As you said, you interpreted to mean "not to activate it within Wrye Bash." That means, do not check the plugin within Wrye Bash. What is the confusion?

Because the additional instruction of "Don't activate the esp!" are missing from the readme. The other poster specifically mentioned the section I posted which was in regards to Wrye Bash. For some reason not checking it in Wrye Bash also meant don't activate it in the game in his/her mind. There is nothing in the readme that says do not activate the esp within the game. That's my point. If the author's intent was that not activating it Wyre Bash also meant don't activate it anywhere then it is not at all clear.

And for the last time, hopefully, if the instructions were clear this conversation wouldn't be happening. It's really as simple as putting don't activate the esp somewhere in the readme. I didn't see it if it's there and I apologize if it is is - but even if it is it's not prominent enough to deter threads such as this.

Seriously- there is no point in this devolving into an argument, I was simply trying to offer some constructive criticsm. I would hope that my comments were interpretted in this light.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

I'm not clear on what the problem is. The mod requires WB to run, and so WB will almost certainly be used to manage mods too. You cannot leave the plugin deactivated in WB, but have it activated elsewhere, so there's no substance to the don't-be-WB-specific arguement. Also, there's no such thing as activating a plugin in game.

From the readme (with bold text kept intact):



I'm pretty sure the emphasis is being put in the right place, and can't see any reason for changing it, and Arthmoor is of the same mind, so that's that.

If you are using Wrye Bash to mange your load order then not activating it in Wrye Bash means not activating it anywhere else. I think you misunderstand what activation. Regardless of how you activate the plugin, the plugin will show as active in any program. Therefore, even if you activate it while Wrye Bash is closed, you go against what the ReadMe says. Activating a mod is activating a mod regardless of how you do it. It is not some special feature adssociated with Wrye Bash.

Edit: That does not even say "Do not activate the .esp in Wrye Bash."

It could be reworded (for really new users) "Do not activate the All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp. Check in the import cells section of the Bashed Patch, and leave it deactivated in your load order." Is that clearer?

Seriously, I can't comphrend how much more out of porportion you people can take this. . .



Activating plugins can be done from within the game's launcher. I'm sure you know that.



This is talking about Wrye Bash, not the game's launcher or Oblivion Mod Manager- or any other program that manages one's load order. It's talking about not activating the esp in the same sentence as importing cells, the conclusion being that it's talking about Wrye Bash. I have heard Wrye Bash can be used to adjust one's load order- but so the instructions are confusing. And for the last time if they weren't this conversation wouldn't be happening.

You don't want to change the readme, that's all good. I was just trying to be helpful. That doesn't change the fact that the instructions are not clear. Let me demonstrate this point:



I had to check online how to do that. It would have been quite simple to direct players to the lower right of the screen.

Bottom line is this- you don't see my point and I don't see yours. Let's let this topic die before it gets out of hand.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

Did you see my edited post? Is that wording clearer? Most users know what that means, but you are new to Wrye Bash...and mods I guess. However, you cannot use that plugin without Wrye Bash, so I think it is reasonable for them to assume that. I also recommend only using Wrye Bash to manager your load order. It offers a lot more information than other utilities. Plus, merging and importing plugins is specific to Wrye Bash and the bashed patch, so of course other utilities cannot help you manage those. Also, you should rebuild your bashed patch any time you change your load order, whether you update a plugin, move plugins in your load order or, sometimes, even if you just deactivate them (because you do not want certain changes imported into the bashed patch.)

You shouldn't be activating any plugins that way though

Actually I was pretty sure it was just simply saying "do not activate". That implies in any way at all, not just Wrye Bash

True, I do not use Wrye Bash. My only use for it in the past was in making mods that required De-Isolation. The wording infers that I should not activate the esp when I'm importing cells- that is what it says to me. Of course earlier in the manual installation section it says I should- confusion. This added into the fact the not activatings esps is unusual and that alone warrents a more indepth description. As to your new wording- it's obviously clearly and I think an improvement.



I could use the plugin without Wrye Bash, might not work right, but that's just splitting hairs.

I would totally lock/delete this topic if I could, but sadly this forum doesn't seem to allow that. Anyway I think the relevant people are aware of my concern. So, please let's just let this topic die the slow death it so richly deserves.


- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

Even if you use the game launcher, the plugin description field shows up, so I honestly can't see what the problem is. *DO NOT ACTIVATE!!!* seems awfully clear to me, regardless of how you go about activating things.

I completely agree with you- it should still be in the readme. As I mentioned early we don't look for install instructions in esp descriptions, or at least I don't.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

Do not use that plugin without Wrye Bash. It requires masters that you probably do not have installed, and your game will crash.

I was joking.

- Ryan Paul Fialcowitz

Oh, good...I am gullible.