The Ultimate Map/Compass Poll... : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:54 am

At the very least, Quest Markers should toggle on/off.

See as much as that's a great idea, Beth tends to, as we found in Oblivion, design there quests around the fact that there is Quest Markers. Which I personally think killed a lot of the quests for me. I missed actually have to pay attention to directions from a quest I just recieved.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:30 pm

Better idea than toggling anything:

The compass is a part of the UI that requires your character to have a compass at all times to use. Ones can be purchased in one shop in every settlement with a store.

Compasses come in a variety of visual styles, as well as ones that are more or less enchanted. Note that while the most basic compasses all cost the same, Nice looking compasses are much, much cheaper if unenchanted. As far as enchantments go, every combination of features should be available, and with multiple strengths. However, these ramp much, much more quickly in price than an unenchanted compass. Don't want quest markers? buy one without that enchantment. Want a longer icon range for discovered locations? Well, that's not much of an issue: buy the long-range enchantment version.

This way, everyone gets what they want for themselves AS A CHOICE. There's no need for people to insist everyone play without a compass and with no quest markers. You elect not to buy a compass. Want limited detection ranges for undiscovered locations? Don't buy the ones enchanted with long range on that aspect. Want all the PoI features, but no quest markers? That can be available, too. The more your compass does, the more the cost ramps up compared to the "style points". Want it all? People will look at your compass and laugh for a really long time. Want only the directional indicator and tons of style? It's still not cheap, but you won't be saving for a new compass for 15 levels, either.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:09 am

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1095751-maps-and-wayfinding/ :ahhh:

I agree as well.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:56 am

I really could not stand the tick marks for enemies...

It wouldn't have to be so decisive on friend or foe, that should be line of sight.

The compass could just get a little blur where you hear something. Could be rocks shifting, could be someone walking, talking, snoring.
Instead of the compass being a bar it could be shaped like this ? and sounds behind you would fuzz the visible back half of the compass.

I was also thinking "waypoints" on the compass should just be angle markers. Like setting a marker at a little over north by northeast because you know, according to your map, thats about how to get to the city from where you are. Then you get to compensate for terrain while you are actually traveling.

And your personal location on the map should update as you cross a landmark.

Thats what the traveling should be like. That is something I would be excited to buy.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:15 pm

Well, I think the compass should only be out when you're using it. So unless you're going around with a weapon in one hand and a compass in the other, you wouldn't see any tick marks.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:29 pm

What happened to the suggestions thread? Is organization no longer in vogue? Was it ever? Am I a man or a woman?

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:22 am

What happened to the suggestions thread? Is organization no longer in vogue? Was it ever? Am I a man or a woman?

That's a pretty off-topic post... To answer your questions:
1. It is still around somewhere, but since this isn't a suggestion but rather a discussion of map/compass-related features the location of the suggestion thread is irrelevant.
2. Organization was never in vogue. It is almost always the result of reactionaries who are unable to find what they are looking for. The rest of the time it is practiced by those few of us who actually like organizing.
3. I have no idea. For all we know you aren't even human. B)

Well, I think the compass should only be out when you're using it. So unless you're going around with a weapon in one hand and a compass in the other, you wouldn't see any tick marks.

Not a bad idea Shades, and one that I would probably enjoy, but do you think that it would have any kind of mass appeal (i.e. what Bethesda would be looking for)?

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:38 pm

I long for a system that correctly combines options, information gathering, and ease of use.

My design would work like this:
Step 1.
You get a quest to retrieve the Sword of Uberl-eet from the Shrine of Canno-fined. Your quest giver does not know the location but does know that it is south of town and before the mountains. They suggest that someone at the Porky Pony Inn down the road may know more. At this point you get a large "area marker" that covers the entire region south of town but before the mountain on your map as well as a smaller area map down the road where the inn could be. You can choose one of two options now:

Step 2.
Option A - You go straight south and wander around in the "area marker" until you find the Shrine.

Option B - You go down the road and find the Inn. Asking around you get slightly better directions as well as the name of the guy who has been there before who can tell you exactly where it is. Now your "area" marker is much smaller (but still not precise) and you get two more options.

Step 3.
Option A - You go straight south and wander around the smaller "area marker" until you find the Shrine.

Option B - You hunt down the guy who has been there before and he marks the location for you.

At no point in time would there be a "flag" pointing out the direction you need to go, as that is too simplistic and unnecessary considering you have a map. The location icon (the brown and tan things from OB) only appear for locations that you have been too and locations you have been given specific directions to but have not yet arrived there (i.e. wandering around in the wilderness will not cause the tan icons to let you know that there is a ruin two mountain peaks over unless you already know it is there). Locations that are a destination for a quest could have a border added to their icon so that when you get near to a known location you can head straight for it.

I strongly believe that a system that allows free-range exploration as well as specific directions can be achieved as long as Bethesda is willing to spend the time building it. We should never have a "toggle" for features as that means that the developer did not spend enough time making either system work well.

I absolutely love this! The perfect balance between the crappy directions of Morrowind and the noob friendly marker of Oblivion. That is an excellent system I would like. :goodjob:

It seems like too much work for Bethesda to do though, since we know well they love to cut corners on quests. (cough Mannimarco cough).

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:40 am

The map like Morrowind had. Where as you explore the land the map uncovers. And I would think that unless a landmark is right on the main road you would have to ask local towns people perhaps if they know where locations off of the beaten path are because otherwise you'll be stumbling through the wilderness blindly.

The quest marker should only be activated if you have already explored the region where the quest leads and then it should only point in a general direction. Not the exact spot.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:12 pm

My main problem with in-game compasses is that the game is then designed so that the player must use them. This is true even with the option to turn it off, whether included in the game or by a mod. Games that include compasses will, for example, not include clear directions in the quests because the player is assumed to be able to simply navigate toward the big arrow. So quests are as lazily written as the players are assumed to be.

I understand why developers use them, though. The best example is the infamous quest in World of Warcraft to find Mankrik's wife. The location of the body is cleverly revealed in Mankrik's story about their fight with some quillboar, and because it required a bit of thought to puzzle out, I really like it. Unfortunately, many players were unable or too impatient to extrapolate from the narrative "Go south and look for huts next to the road."

Compasses irritate me, but I expect I will continue to see them.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:38 am

My main problem with in-game compasses is that the game is then designed so that the player must use them. This is true even with the option to turn it off, whether included in the game or by a mod. Games that include compasses will, for example, not include clear directions in the quests because the player is assumed to be able to simply navigate toward the big arrow. So quests are as lazily written as the players are assumed to be.

I understand why developers use them, though. The best example is the infamous quest in World of Warcraft to find Mankrik's wife. The location of the body is cleverly revealed in Mankrik's story about their fight with some quillboar, and because it required a bit of thought to puzzle out, I really like it. Unfortunately, many players were unable or too impatient to extrapolate from the narrative "Go south and look for huts next to the road."

Compasses irritate me, but I expect I will continue to see them.

I don't know how many times that question was asked and every time someone would say "In my pants"

But back onto topic: I have a feeling that compasses will be in the next game also. As Oblivion showed us, Bethesda is trying to go more main stream and wander away from the hardcoe RPG fans. I'm by no means a hardcoe RPG fan but I do enjoy the genre and would like to think once in awhile while playing a game instead of the game telling me how to do it.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:02 pm

purchasable maps and compasses.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:28 am

Give me a map with major roads on it... maybe even major cities. Other than that, unless I've already found it, I don't want to see it.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:39 am

I'd like to set 10 markers with 12 characters of text for each. That way when I set a point down at an interesting location I can label it for later study. I'd also like teh game to allow me to name a few things. Like if I somehow climb to the top of an un-named peek on a mountain range I can name it. If I land my boat on a tiny unnamed island I can name that...etc.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:39 pm

Purchaseable compasses, but I want them to not be on the HUD. Only North, East, South and West on the compass though. No locations etc.

Purchaseable maps with the dicovered locations.

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:11 am

I like NO out of character knowledge. A compass is fine as long as it's reasonable the character would carry one (or have good directional sense). An in-game map is fine, but I shouldn't have the location I'm at displayed on it. I should be able to mark my own map but not have it marked for me.

I find navigation a thrilling challenge, particularly with how beautiful the Oblivion world is and how far you can see. I really despise how they did everything they could to take navigation out of the game.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:40 pm

I like NO out of character knowledge. A compass is fine as long as it's reasonable the character would carry one (or have good directional sense). An in-game map is fine, but I shouldn't have the location I'm at displayed on it. I should be able to mark my own map but not have it marked for me.

I find navigation a thrilling challenge, particularly with how beautiful the Oblivion world is and how far you can see. I really despise how they did everything they could to take navigation out of the game.

What if you are told of a location?

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:09 am

I think you should be able to see undiscovered locations IF you hear somebody talking about it or buy a map that has that location BUT you can only fast travel if you have been there before (assuming that there will be fast travel).

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:43 pm

What if you are told of a location?

If they know it well enough to mark it on my map? Sure, it can have their mark. But it should be just like a player's mark. Not necessarily completely accurate, erasable, and again the player's location should never be marked on the map so you still have to look around the world to figure out if you're in the right place.

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:23 pm

I think it would be kind of cool to buy compasses and maps and check them out (in a Pip Boy like animation) sort of like Far Cry 2 (but enhanced cause I could barely see the map, it being so tiny :stare:). And I don't want AT ALL markers for the enemies, that is just cheesy...

» Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:16 pm

I think it would be kind of cool to buy compasses and maps and check them out (in a Pip Boy like animation) sort of like Far Cry 2 (but enhanced cause I could barely see the map, it being so tiny :stare:). And I don't want AT ALL markers for the enemies, that is just cheesy...

Even if the markers are only present when a detect life spell is active?

» Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:24 am

Even if the markers are only present when a detect life spell is active?

Hmmm....that I wouldn't mind

but otherwise it's silly. With a detect life spell shure, only then would it make any sense.