Well then. Seems Glarthir is far more trouble than he is worth. I am running the quest, and actually followed his first 'conspirator', even though I knew what she was gonna do.... went back, pvssyd with Glarthir, got the next assignment. Didn't wanna chase off after another wild goose... so, just waited 23 hours behind the chapel... and when the game started loading the new scene, crash...... Ok, reload, move off somewhere else, wait, crash..... hhhhmmmm..... checked for conflicts in TES4Edit... but, the amount of information is overwhelming, and I am not quite understanding what I see..... I am open for suggestions here. Load List:

Oblivion.esmFrancesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esmFrancesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esmOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esmMart's Monster Mod.esmFCOM_Convergence.esmUnofficial Oblivion Patch.espDLCShiveringIsles.espUnofficial Shivering Isles Patch.espShivering OOO.espMOBS SI.espMOBS SI Optional Combat Settings.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.espFrancesco's Optional Leveled Guards.espFCOM_Francescos.espFCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.espFCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.espLock Bash Omega.espReznod_Mannequin.espHarvest[Containers].espLiving Economy - SI.espLiving Economy - Items.espsr_super_hotkeys.espDLCHorseArmor.espDLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.espDLCOrrery.espDLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.espDLCSpellTomes.espDLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.espBob's Armory Oblivion.espFCOM_BobsArmory.espOblivion WarCry EV.espFCOM_WarCry.espOscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.espFCOM_Convergence.espFCOM_RealSwords.espFCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.espMart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.espMart's Monster Mod - No Giants.espMart's Monster Mod - No Undead Rise.espMart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.espMart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.espMart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.espMart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.espMart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.espFCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.espFCOM_BobsGuardUnity.espFCOM_HungersUnitySI.espFCOM_FriendlierFactions.espFCOM_MoreRandomItems.espJQ&DM-ScriptedBackpacks.espDLCBattlehornCastle.espDLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.espBattlehornCastleEnhanced.espDLCFrostcrag.espDLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.espKnights.espKnights - Unofficial Patch.espFCOM_Knights.espHarvest [Flora].espHarvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.espHarvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.espRealisticForceMedium.espRealisticMagicForceMedium.espbgMagicEV.espbgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.espbgMagicEVAddEnVar.espbgMagicEVPaperChase.espbgMagicLightningbolt.espSupremeMagicka.espbgMagicEV_Conjuration_for_Supreme_Magicka.espSM_ShiveringIsles.espSM_DLCSpellTome.espSM_OOO.espSM_MMM.espSM_EnchantStaff.espSM_UnlockSpells.espSM_Scrolls.espsr_spell_deletion.espAdvanced Magecraft.espEnchantment Enhanced.espattack and hide medium v2.1.espStealthOverhaul.espDD_ProximitySneakPenalty.espDuke Patricks Near Miss Arrow Shot Alerts The Target.espDuke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.espIntelligence Overhaul (No Book Changes).espSniperSneakSkillup.espToaster's Legendary Skills.espGrandmaster of Alchemy.espFrancesco's 10 days respawn time - 1-20 day lenght rescale.espX-Ray Detect.espvjHealthMod.espMouseWheelDisable.espBashed Patch, 0.espDuke Patricks Script Effect Silencer.espRAEVWD Imperial City.espRAEVWD Cities.espRAEVWD New Sheoth.esp

I recall having crashing when following the wine guy. I speculate that there may be some problems with the AI Packages - too many complex ones processing at the same time can cause crashes.

Any clue how to work around it?

Insted of waiting 23 hourse behind the cathedral, wait somewhere outside Skingrad instead and only enter the city right before the rendevouze. That might help.

Thanks, will give that a shot.

Well, didn't work. Went outside Skingrad gate, waited until about 11:30PM, went thru the gate, and crashed.. So, tried again, waited an extra hour.... 12:30AM, went in the gate.... Crash.

It appears that UOP, and OOO alter Glathir, but, nothing that I can find at the point where the game crashes. Reloaded an earlier save, from before I started actually talking to him behind the chapel, and everything seems to be fine.....

I don't have a clue what is going on here.

Well, Skingrad is probably the area where CTDs are most likely to happen, in my experience.
Have you tried waiting in real time inside Skingrad and see if the game still crashes? Maybe adjust Timescale to speed things up.
But before that try first turning off AI (TAI) and then turn of scripts (TSCR, I think) in order to narrow down things. If turning off AI helps, try again with only Glarthir's AI turned off (select him directly or PRID him and then TAI).

Skingrad, and the road from Skingrad to Anvil are the best places for me to test whether my setup is really stable or not. A large percentage of my crashes occur in those places.

I just ran into a repeatable crash myself on the road between Kvatch and Skingrad. Cell -33,-8 to be exact. Unfortunately, nothing surrounding that area (pointing east) was affected by potentially corrupt spawns. So I ended up having to reload and probe around until I was able to walk into the -32 column, at which point I saw Maiq the Liar appear on the road. I suspect his AI got jacked somehow. I walked over to him, talked, and then he took off and I was able to continue on to Skingrad like nothing happened. Thing is, if a corrupt AI or spawn belongs to Oblivion.esm, there's nothing you can do about it if it comes back again later. I'm hoping this isn't the case here, but it's light to shed on the problem as we all seem to be getting similar incidents.

Oh wow, are you serious... That was always my test for the game's stability...great going there...Seraphim would always make him upset (by hitting him accidentally), so he seemed to follow her and my PC all of the time too.

He wasn't following me around, he just happened to be updating to that location while I was passing through. His AI has him ranging all over the game so if he's messed up somehow he could be causing havoc wherever he goes.

I have ran into M'aiq a couple times, at IC, Anvil, and Chorrol, I think. He doesn't seem to be causing any issues. If I stay away from Glarthir's quest, all is well in Skingrad. A borked AI package does sound like a good possibility though.

Well, there are probably multiple NPCs that tend to have bugged AI. I know lots of people get the Skingrad crashes too. I used to always have this really horrible stuttering issue as I approached the city. It was not like normal loading stutter, just choppy.

Any way to figger out which one is borked? Or how to fix it?

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22368

It seems as though you would simply have to pay attention to which NPCs are around when the CTD comes.

Or use elimination methods. I think the Wineyard NPCs (Surile brothers and Tamika) have the most complex AI Packages and they have caused me problems before, so I'd start with them.

Trouble is, the crash occurs inside Skingrad. There are a fair few NPC's in there...... Could be Glarthir himself, or, the person I am supposed to be following.... I may have to try the quest again, and actually follow the folks, and see what happens.

Maybe v281 is the answer to some of these things...or not...update!

If it's an AI that's borked, and it only happens in one particular city, that's not going to be easy to track down. Made even worse by the possibility of it being an unmodified vanilla NPC that's causing it. If it turns out a vanilla is the reason you're having trouble, there's nothing that can be done about that. AI doesn't reset if you spend 4 days in the testing cell.

Although if you figure out who does it, you could kill them and they'd no longer be a problem for you

Thinking about it, I suspect it is Glarthir himself that is causing the trouble, as the crash occurs on loading when i am trying to go meet him. And I going to try and exclude OOO from the Import AI portion of my bashed patch, and see if that makes any difference.

What other mods are adding AI packages to Glarthir? just OOO?

OOO doesn't add an AI pack to Glarthir. Only a chest key. TIE adds a night-eye effect and changes his facegen data. Other than those two, nothing is touching him at all. Not even the UOP touches him. Nothing but Open Cities even touches his underlying AI packs. So if he's really the thing that's screwed up, it amounts to a save game corruption unless some other mod is touching him that isn't obvious.

Would http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24606 help if the problem is the latter?

Edit: added link

Glarthir would have to be dead for that cleanup to matter. Since he can't get in there to kill the guy....

You talk about death so easily Arthmoor...

Oh, I need you to look at something. I cannot believe I almost forgot.