Helping Brink Succeed

Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:15 am

Linsolv http://www.thebrinkforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=290 that could make or break Brink.
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claire ley
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

very nice article, someone should repost this an sticky it. For thos who didn't click:
We all want Brink to succeed.

H0RSE is out there in the trenches, busting his butt on a level that I can only hope to ever come close to. Vaporman is out there making contests. JJ is winning them. Shadowrun is... well, actually, he probably wants Shadowrun to succeed. But that just goes to show he's got experience with what happens when things don't come together. :P

It's easy to sit around and say that it'll become a success on its own, as long as we vote with our dollars. That's the American way, and PytoX will just have to go with it for the sake of argument. But it doesn't really work that way, not in the grand scheme of things. Sure, the developers need to make a game that is worth playing. But what about all the series' out there that got canceled despite their relative popularity?

What about Skate, widely regarded as much better than THPS, which last I checked is still going on, not getting another title? What about Guilty Gear, which was sold off and canceled despite being one of the few real remaining competitors to Street Fighter, and one of the coolest fighters out to boot? What about Last Blade, one of the most innovative fighters out of SNK? Didn't they make a great game? What about Project Gotham Racing? What about Guitar Hero? Didn't they have a decent-enough reception, where the fans voted with their dollars? But in the end, their publishers felt it wasn't a good investment, and all those series' were ended. Except Project Gotham, they actually had to close their doors.

On the other hand, other games are incredible successes that last for dozens of years on the competitive scene, a fate I'm certain Splash Damage aims towards for Brink. Why is Starcraft 2 the biggest eSport on the planet right now, and Warcraft 3 barely even has leagues? Why is it that Counter Strike Source is still one of the most prestigious games on the planet, while Call of Duty, a massive financial giant, has only a tenuous place in the eSport community?

I'll tell you a bit of what I know.

1. Any game with a sufficiently large mainstream community will develop a competitive community if it is at all possible.
2. Any game with a sufficiently large competitive community will maintain a mainstream community, though it may be quite small.
3. Any game with a static meta-game will see a slowly decreasing competitive community.
4. Any game with easy access to its meta-game will see a slowly increasing competitive community.


For example...

#1 - World of Warcraft is arguably the biggest commercial success in the world right now. After a year, Blizzard introduced the concept of Battlegrounds, which introduced a distinct and structured stage for competition, and it didn't take long for "premades" to begin appearing—preset teams of players who wished to compete at a higher level than their opponents. A few years later, Blizzard decided they wanted a true MLG-style competitive field, so they introduced Arenas. In any example where there is room for competition, out of a sufficiently large group a sizable portion will want to excel in that field of competition. Tetris, Geometry Wars, Nazi Zombies, Contra... all single-player games which later developed competition simply because there were players who wished for it to be there.

#2 - The prime example has to be Counter Strike. Released in 1999, it maintains popularity on college campuses around the country, simply because it is the primary game of MLG, the most popular tournament holder for competitive games in the United States. They also own Gamebattles, in case you didn't know.

#3 - This is exactly what happens with Call of Duty games. Eventually, people figure out that the ACR, the FAMAS, or the M16, depending on the game, are the most effective weapon possible and the metagame stalls. There is no reason to play competitively when there is no changing strategy or trump. On the other hand, dynamic meta-games seem to last forever—Starcraft, for instance, still has debates between 10rax and 11rax for Terran. Admittedly, 11rax is very much the standard, but the point is that there are still debates despite it being one of the most popular eSports on the planet, and a 13 year old game. (Note: this means that you have 10 or 11 SCVs before you build your first barracks)

#4 - Starcraft has to be pointed out here, as it is one of the few eSports with true access to its meta-game for anyone who wants it. Street Fighter is a close second, thanks to the open community and willingness to give out advice on the meta-game, and it is easily the second most popular eSport.

—————

What does this mean for us? It means that we need to encourage a community where the good things are encouraged: An accessible meta-game and a strong competitive community. We need to discourage the negative things, like a static meta-game.

But I'm still talking gibberish on a certain level.

As players, we need to spend time experimenting with different team makeups. We need to try different ability builds on our characters. We need to test the various guns both in private matches and in the "field" online, and try to keep Splash Damage abriast of what could use a boost, or what is too powerful, so that the ball remains in their court. We need to have debates and discussions, like we have been doing, with a constant eye not for deciding what is best, but for deciding how to beat the best.

On the other hand, we need a competitive community, and the easiest way to do that is tournaments and leagues. We need to encourage players who perhaps would not play in leagues because they feel they're not good enough with rookie leagues, because the only way to get great players who aren't just imported from Call of Duty or Counter-Strike: Source is to bring them up ourselves. We need to encourage players who prefer other games with prestigious tournaments and/or great prizes

We need access to this competition, otherwise we risk going the way of Gears of War, which has an active competitive scene full of people you've never heard of and never seen play. To do this, we need access to replays and we need commentators—not Hutch, WingsOfRedemption, and WoodysGamertag, even though they're great for the community, but we need John Madden or Hastr0 (who, to the best of my knowledge, commentates every shooter under the sun at various tournaments... I've seen one or two but I can't find the video now). And what's more, these have to be immediately present and constantly changing—not hidden somewhere in an unlisted YouTube video. Which means building a fanbase, which is hard.

But of course, games have gotten successful with less than all this. Look at Diablo 2. It was a huge success, and had a tiny competitive community of PKers, had no real metagame—Assassin was best—and YouTube didn't even exist when it came out. But who wants to risk it?

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Nicole Mark
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:00 pm

I gotta say this article makes a lot of sense. I will attempt to do my part.
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Stace
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:42 am

What would the possibility be of stickying this? It would do more good than bad
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:33 pm

User-created topics with foreign-site content don't get stickies.



And this reads like too high science for me; I just want to play the game and have fun after it came out, really. Sounds like Linsolv wants to start beta-testing after release.
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Chloe Mayo
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:32 am

User-created topics with foreign-site content don't get stickies.

i put it in quotes in my post

And this reads like too high science for me; I just want to play the game and have fun after it came out, really. Sounds like Linsolv wants to start beta-testing after release.


It's not too bad, if you skip down to the bottom it pretty much outlines it
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:06 pm

Sounds like Linsolv wants to start beta-testing after release.


Not so much that as... like what you see a lot of the time with Street Fighter or Starcraft. You will never see a Call of Duty class http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2009/1/30/uc-berkeley-starcraft-class-week-1.html. Could it happen? Yeah, dude. You could, except that so far, most Call of Duty games don't have a deep enough meta-game (that is to say, strategy that transcends the specifics of what's already happened in the game) to do it. But Call of Duty doesn't seem to want that.
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roxxii lenaghan
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Bravo.
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Alina loves Alexandra
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:09 pm

Bravo.


It's a nice kick in the pants for those of us hoping to contribute somehow to make this a success, not just for SD and Bethesda, but for US.
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Chad Holloway
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:46 am

Linsolv http://www.thebrinkforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=290 that could make or break Brink.

Dang. Horse is well known!
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Adam
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:14 am

It's a nice kick in the pants for those of us hoping to contribute somehow to make this a success, not just for SD and Bethesda, but for US.


It is indeed, my friend.
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Naomi Lastname
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Dang. Horse is well known!


'Course he's well known. It's a Brink forum. Who wouldn't know a guy like H0RSE on a Brink forum? :P
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AnDres MeZa
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:55 pm

'Course he's well known. It's a Brink forum. Who wouldn't know a guy like H0RSE on a Brink forum? :P

Celebrities already... and before the game's even released. :laugh: Wonder if he'll go on to become a household name in the later months.
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brandon frier
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:12 pm

very good read :)
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Cccurly
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:12 pm

I am a Black Ops player, and the FAMAS dominates everything. You can see how the game gets stale quick. I mean, it's better than SMGs at close range and has the power and accuracy of an assault rifle. While other assault rifles have the same power with less fire rate.

Please let Brink have great gun variety and not make the same mistakes treyarch made.
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kristy dunn
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:41 pm

Nice read.

Been here for 15 minutes and already feel like there's some actual community going on here. Nice change of pace from the SOCOM 4 beta forums. Hope it lasts.
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Alister Scott
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:00 am

'Course he's well known. It's a Brink forum. Who wouldn't know a guy like H0RSE on a Brink forum? :P

I was hoping he was going to be our special guy.........the other guys stole him........FORUM FIGHT!
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Scott
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:56 am

The problem that those games have with the firearms, is that guns don't balance only developers do, all of the firearms fall into the basic principal of bullet composition (type of bullet, type of grain, the amount of grain, the type of casing, the type of primer, was the round a wild cat/subsonic/standard), caliber of the weapon, the length of the barrel, composition of the barrel, type of flash hider/break/compensator/suppressor, type of firing system. these all contribute into the weapon system. in basic terms the weapons of the same caliber should do the same damage and the same amount of accuracy depending on the barrel, but game developers decide that certain weapons are better than others (which in real life they are) and change aspects to accommodate players: look at the UMP45, MP40, M16, FAMAS, FN F2000, and the M4A1 each have different statistics with the pistol caliber weapons being considered stronger and used more because they have been buffed by the developers.

Brink developers aren't using real weapons in the game but using weapons influenced from their real life counterparts in the game, Meta-game could become real in-depth if the developers put a real RPG style stats/skill setup, the problem with COD and BFBC2 is the meta-game is static (like Linsolv stated) the other games made their characters/weapons and left the players to learn set-ups, combos, tactics to make the meta-game huge, like chess, star craft, and WOW.

My hope is that attachments really affect the character themselves, which drum mags should really affect the weight and all of the minor changes you can do to the weapon itself (muzzle brakes and suppressors, which they should have put in flash hiders to put another way to make the weapons more in depth) even the way the character will hold the weapon (tactical, runner, and hybrid to change speed of movement, aiming, and switching) granted these things are too late in the game to add but as a idea it could help in bringing a wave to thinking of things that could help in extending the meta-game.

(Majority is me being a firearms technical skadouche)
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Ashley Hill
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:10 am

An oath perhaps:

"I do hereby declare and certify by oath that I will,
to the best of my ability and knowledge,
devote every second available to me to the success of BRINK,
to ensure its future,
just as I had done in all of my years playing Counter-Strike ."
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Epul Kedah
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:07 am

Yes i agree needs to have an active community from the start and stay active and the idea of not discouraging new players is a great idea. Really Great read.
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Louise
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:30 am

ya know those ^ above the influence commercials UP? ya know how they show some huge obvious fact on big orange rolled up paper? (ironicly made by the trees their saving)
i say we find those guy's and slap a huge BRINK MO' FO'! tag on it and in small print have the website address.
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Ria dell
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:44 am

What's a horse?
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lauraa
 
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Post » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:52 pm

What's a horse?


If I recall my mid 20th century television properly, it's a large hoofed thing that talks and men in odd hats with guns rode around on.
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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:41 am

HORSE...IS...GAAAAAAWWWWWWD!!! http://www.fragworld.org/frag/community-blogs/brink-info-pt-1-story-gameplay-smart-classes-and-objectives.html
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LuCY sCoTT
 
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