This... sound like a good idea.

I like that ! Especially the bit about having to research merchants characteristics first. It would add further NPCs rumours to listen to, too.

Although I might say, if we make the selling to merchants that more trickier all around (and I'm all for it!) the rewards should also be a bit greater than they were in Oblivion. We gotta have either easy sell/low prices or trickier sales/higher rewards in order to make the acquisition of money difficult yes, but not impossibly long and tedious. If anything, still don't get the usual prices on fine clothing, gems and jewellery. They ought to be a tad better, no ?

Totally, dont know what all these other people are thinking....

Something based on plausiblity would be great, but this automatic business from the older games is pure rubbish,

OK, let's summarize the formula:

• The stolen items in your inventory are marked as stolen, but as an option, you can toggle the indicator off, if you like.
  
• There can be a formula that would define if an NPC recognizes a stolen item from you, if you are wearing it and you pass him by, or if you are selling the item to him, or if he is inspecting your inventory to find stolen items, as a guard.
  
• Each stolen item has an internal data, which marks the position that it was first stolen, and has a price, and has a defined owner, and that owner has a faction.
  
• Each NPC has a recognition threshold that defines his perception on stolen items, and guards and traveling merchants have higher perception than other people, and any NPC would instantly recognize the items that belonged to him, so you cannot steal a robe from a person and wear it right away.
  
• Unique items that are recognizable throughout the nation are instantly recognized.
  
• Otherwise the formula is based on the price of the item for the NPC, the distance of the NPC from the original place of the item, the NPC's perception, whether the NPC is in the same faction as the original owner, and whether they are inspecting your items or just see you passing by while wearing the item.
  
• The time that the item was stolen also affect the formula, so as the time passes, they become harder to recognize as stolen, except for the unique items.
  
• Edit: The relation of your type of clothing with the stolen item can also affect the perception of the inspecting NPC, as well. (Added)
  
• Fences do buy stolen items, but they bargain hard, buy cheap, and sell dear, but they can change the item so that it cannot be recognized as stolen, after that.
  
• The items that would be recognized as stolen, would be automatically removed from the list, when you want to sell them to a regular merchant, but the ones that are not removed, are optionally marked as stolen so that you know what you are doing.

So you can steal items from a house and sell the junk to the nearby merchant, and go further away and sell the more priced items, and go further away and sell the more priced items there and so on...

For the more important items that you have stolen, you have to find fences, and those people bargain hard, so you cannot become rich overnight, or you can carry them to another town and sell them there to a regular merchant, for better price than what a fence would pay.

You cannot wear a stolen item near the place that it was stolen, for a long time.

That's a sound solution IMHO.

I don't think it should be option, simply because it seems like a bizzare thing to dedicate an option to. It should either always be visibly marked as stolen, or always be a hidden flag. Heck, if there's a hardcoe mode it should not be visible.


Yeah, this idea makes sense. Although guards should only take items they actually recognise. It's ridiculous how you can steal a zero-value spoon, and the guards psychically deduce that the Fortify Fatigue Pants you swiped from that backwater village must be stolen as well. It could be based on a word-of-mouth "report" system. An NPC tells a guard about a stolen item, who will alert the other guards about it, and keep an eye out for it. If they tell other NPCs, then they will keep an eye out for it, but they'll only tell friends or people they see on a regular basis (because we don't want that beggar or even the horses reporting that they recognise stolen items)

I'm not even sure if position would even be necessary, given that previous games still retain existing ownership for stolen items. The victim should report it to local guards and residents, and they simply go on alert. Travellers might spread the word to other towns, if it's a particularly valuable item. It would be much more organic that way.


This is a good idea. If an NPC turns around to find you suddenly wearing their robe, and their table suddenly clear, they should actually recognise it straight away.


Perhaps, although there have been instances in the past where you could convince people that you somehow obtained a valuable item legitimately even when you did not. I'd like to see some way of that being kept in.


Definitely disagree with this. That would make it too easy. There should be some level of challenge and skill in guessing who is going to recognise what, so I think everything should be listed. Imagine the shock of realising that the alchemist you're trying to sell to is actually good friends with that nobleman you stole a bunch of potions from. It would encourage you to first investigate the relationships between other characters, and determine who it would be wise to sell items to, which would make being a thief a lot more exciting than simply running off to the same old safe-bet fence all the time.


I like this, but again, I think it should be based on a word-of-mouth system than a plain old position/distance system.


I like this a lot. Low risk, low return. That's the way it should be. If you want more gold, then you have to be prepared to take a bigger risk.


Well you should be able to wear it. It should merely be a risky proposition, but not with a 100% chance of being caught. I'm guessing that's what you meant though.

and get rid of owned beds if the owner is dead.

Morrowind had that setup, where the items weren't mark so you had to be careful when picking something up. I liked how it was in Oblivion, it was simple to use and you didn't need to worry about getting thrown out of a guild. I'll play under either system but I prefer Oblivion's system.

Well that's one way to make it optional, a hardcoe mode.


Your word of mouth suggestion is more realistic, but the implementation is much harder than the simple distance formula that I suggested, especially if they want to make such a system in a way that player would see and recognize. Because you would not be present when this info is spread.


How about that hardcoe mode?


That's what I meant. Because of the risk involved.

Heat score system, heh. I think unless you are seen stealing it, it should not be flagged as stolen--unless it is something rare, or you are trying to sell it to the person you scoffed it from. Sure, mark it in your inventory, but no one should know its stolen unless they have reason to believe it might be.

If you are trying to sell an Imperial guard helm, yeah that might cause concern. Trying to sell something valuable that was stolen locally, yeah word would likely get around. But if you steal something, with no witnesses, and then sell it a city over, none should be the wiser.

Absolutely, I highly doubt most people would recognize a stolen item. UNLESS it was extreamly rare or valuable or a merchants' own goods. Morrowind has it damn near perfect imo.

The whole system needs redoing. I hate the red markers, but I also hated having to remember which Item I had stolen in morrowind. stolen items shouldn't at alll be marked as stolen unless someone actually sees you take them. I mean, most stuff have a billion other copies of themselves, there is no way anyone would know before you're long gone-

They have that whole new inventory thing were you can rotate the item and read a description about it so it might tell you who it belongs to. I bet this is one of the top ten things they looked at when they sat down an thought what do we fix. The theft thing is practically a meme at this point.

I agree 100% with this even though I didnt steal if I ever make a thief this would be nice

Solution:
Flag remains for 1 week in game, possible to attempt to sell to merchants but if you do and the merchant dosen't approve you get guards all up in your a**.