Uh, I have never seen any game that wasn't fixed free of charge via a downloadable patch. So you're making an argument that is pretty irrelevant IMHO.

It seems to me that you are the ignorant one because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The only way a program could possibly be undebuggable is if the programmer was trying to make it do something not Turing-computable. Then no matter how hard the programmer tried the program would not work as intended and would therefore be theoretically (and practically) undebuggable.

Heh, I just find it funny how this group claims to represent gamers in the UK without being elected. Also if these laws they wanted would ever be accepted, no games would ever be sold because all games are buggy making them elegable for a refund. Thus killing the industry.

All games are buggy?

Have you been living in a cave since the rise of digital distribution? There now exists an attitude among many publishers of "sell now patch later". And they get away with it because the majority of consumers can just download patches. Never mind the people without an internet connection.

Besides, it's not an issue of who can get the patches and how easily they can do so. It's a matter of games being goods just like anything else and they are accountable to a certain standard of quality. Fallout NV certainly wasn't up to this standard upon release. Fable 3 wasn't either. Imagine if any other mass product had been distributed at that quality. People would demand a refund. Sadly games have the downloadable patch get-out clause, and shoddy development is allowed. It's pathetic.

Always knew that there were idiots in my country and I contributed to the UOP. Oblivion was playable without the UOP just much better with it, as it fixed one of my pet hates with bethseda products - floating statics, such as rocks and trees.

Alot and I say alot of people missed the point of this thread.

I understand that these games cannot be bug free....and the people bringing on this action also agree, games are complex pieces of work and nobody can expect them to be bug free.

What the problem is that companies throw out a few patches, then the game hits the point where there is no more DLC etc and suddenly the patching process just stops.....any exsisting bugs are left simply because the company has the money from the game and there is no finical gain from patching it anymore.

I support this group!

I have to disagree with you on this. Every game engine has bugs. All code has bugs. It is, in theory, not possible to have a game engine or code be 100% bug-free. I know this being a programming student. My prof actually told me this::

"A program is 10% of the job. The other 90% is trying to reduce the bugs you caused, by fixing the bugs you had already caused, by fixing the other bugs that were originally in the program."

For the attention and depth for what we expect as gamers these days, you won't get an entirely bug free program. Not to mention, a "couple more months" won't make a difference. The only reason most game release dates are pushed back are to fix game-breaking bugs. They SHOULD do this, but again. You're suggestion is highly unplausable and rather dead-ended. It's like me asking you to throw a dart, at the same spot, every single time, never missing once. It can't happen.

Borderlands is unforgiving.

Oh dear, you need a bit of education before venturing forth:

Please look up the difference between logical bugs and syntax bugs (google will give you thousands of sites)
Syntax bugs are perfectly fixable, but when it comes to logical bugs you must remember that a human wrote the code. Sure the computer is doing exactly what it was told to do, but that doesn't mean what-so-ever that it is doing what the programmers intended it to do! Not by a LONG shot.

Why are you kids so eager to defend large corporations and allow your rights as a consumer to be taken away? I don't think the idea is that games need to be released 100% bug-free, nor do I think the goal is a refund for everyone if there's a floating rock or a pair of boots that clips with robes when you walk.
The purpose of this action is to demand recompense for a game that can't be played fully as intended, whether in the form of a refund or a patch to fix the problem. In other words, if the game is broken the company should fix it or give you back your money.
How [censored] whiny can someone be, wanting an item they purchased to work properly, right?

Like said before, a case of self-entitlement. The game will not be bug-free, and personally, I don't care if there are a few bugs. It's an offline game and there is no competition. :shrug: Nothing much else to be said.



It's not broken though. It's simply imperfect. As long as there is a product, people will [censored] about it.

The bigger question is who decides if the game is working as intended, the developers or the customers (or hod forbid the courts)?

Making a generic shooter franchise like CoD doesn't seem like it would be anywhere near as monumental a task as creating the kind of games Bethesda makes.

Having said that, I've never actually had any issues with bugs in Bethesda games.