There seems to be two camps of TES-players...

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 9:13 am

Just no damage sponges please. Nothing like fighting a Goblin Warlord at level 34. It takes like 15 minutes with a Warrior character in Oblivion.
User avatar
Tiffany Carter
 
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:05 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 3:54 am

My problem with this thread is I feel it's discussing a problem I don't think ever existed.
User avatar
Natalie Taylor
 
Posts: 3301
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:54 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 11:33 am

I would say the spectrum of gamers is infinite; none of us want exactly the same experience from these games. There are likely other major sub-categories in addition to those you defined, and that is one of the great challenges of making these games for any Dev shop - getting the difficulty right. Overall I think Bethesda has done well with the sliding scale of difficulty, though some crazy people like me want it even more difficult than the Very Hard modes, that's where modding comes in. In general I would say the games work for just about all of us, look at the mad following TES has generated. ;)


Exactly.
Oh and btw there is one more kind of a TES player. There are the RPers.
Oh and I am all about a challenge with a little bit of RP in it :D

User avatar
Shianne Donato
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:55 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 3:01 pm

I like both. When installling mods, I use some that make things harder, and some that make other things easier. Games that are designed to be modded are all about the player--you use the mods to design your own game, that best suits you. As long as the game itself does not resist such tinkering, I'm a happy camper.
User avatar
RAww DInsaww
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:47 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 5:25 am

Just make sure Patrick Stewart is a voice actor
User avatar
Nienna garcia
 
Posts: 3407
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:23 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 3:35 pm

I want challenge , where tactics and wit play a bigger role than your level :sadvaultboy: i totally dislike demigod stuff.
User avatar
Mandy Muir
 
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:38 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 3:20 am

That said, I like the challenge at first. As I level, I regard that point when I achieve "demigod" status as a reward. In fact, I almost believe it's immoral to complete the main quest when you're NOT a demigod.

amen
if they made the main quest hard enough that you needed to be a god then it would be balanced, and there we have power n balance in one glorious whole then everybody's happy right??....right??...
User avatar
AnDres MeZa
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:39 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 6:07 pm

I like starting small and growing into a heroic (or villainous) demigod. Nothing wrong with that.

That said, combat and magic should be fun and rewarding at every stage. It's a hell of a job to find balance, but that's why the designers get paid the medium bucks.
User avatar
brenden casey
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:58 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 5:46 pm

This thread is quite offensive. You assume certain views that are not at all connected are indeed connected. Also you assume people like a lot of unique items and less level scaling want an EASIER game? What the heck, it's closer to being hte other way around, honestly this thread sorta pisses me off.

Edit: Bit of an overreaction. But honestly, there is no way to split anything into to camps at all, you must take each issues on its own. But personally I enjoy exploration and progress. Meaning I'm heavily against oblivion-type level scaling and I want the game to be tough and merciless at first.
User avatar
Kate Murrell
 
Posts: 3537
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:02 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 6:25 pm

... on the topic of possibilities and difficulty.

One side are the "I want a challenge"-camp. They want spells and effects to be curbed to ward against OP. Maybe they object to Levitation, because it makes the dungeons "non-linear". Likes level-scaling if it is done right, and so on and so forth.

The other side seems to be the "Lol, DEMIGOD"-camp. They like running around with an acrobatics-skill of 230, jumping from mountain-peak to mountain-peak while the stench of stacked enchantments makes Ascended Sleepers and Daedroths give them a wide berth. Maybe they want loads of unique artifacts and wizard-tower homes and flying dragon-mounts.

Now I am not implying that everyone falls in one of the two categories - most of us probably like a little bit of both.
But catering to both groups does pose a pretty harsh challenge to devs... If you put level-scaling in the game to allow demons that are challenging even to a 70-80+ game-hours character, then you risk throwing the suspension of disbelief out the window, because world-eating Balrog-Predator-Cyborgs seems to be E.v.e.r.y-where.

But, equally - if 80% of the battles your character gets into at some point are just "routine-slash-block-BOOMFINGEROFTHEMOUNTAIN-Iwinagain-hooray" then the challenge-seekers are disappointed.

Personally - I fall far enough into the latter camp that I want the Devs to include every possible spell, effect and weapon, no matter how exploitable, because at the end of the day I like going to hand-to-hand against Azhklan Trolls, knowing I have a fire-spell ready that would sear the eyebrows of Ysgramor himself. But that's just me - I guess I don't play for the adrenaline - at least not TES-games.

Do you agree ? and how do you play ?
Please discuss balance issues and make clever suggestions for how to keep everyone happy, if you have them.



Well aside from the mounts I fall into the latter camp and the first camp (with a very modified version of level scaling as in all the monsters have a set level, but events can increase a particular group of monster's level, this looks like it can be done well with radiant story) I of course disagree with not having levitation. I'm an explorer at heart and having levitation gives me even more areas to explore, and if I have the magika to do it, then let me.
User avatar
Lory Da Costa
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:30 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 11:12 am

Easy answer. Buy the PC version and create a mod that allows you to play the way you prefer.

Mods are the best way a game can truly be all things to all people!
User avatar
Quick Draw
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:56 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 12:15 pm

More on the "challenge side".
User avatar
Aaron Clark
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:23 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 12:49 pm

Most everyone wants both.

I believe the beginning of the game should be challenging.
But I want every possible spell to mess around with as possible. and to have the ability to enchant my underwear.
I just think that at a high enough level you should be taking down most enemies with ease.

I want the game to be challenging throughout most of the gameplay and experience a bit of heart-racing knowing that I couldn't take on that spider all on my own.

If you have devoted enough skills. you should have some demi-god like abilities.

Challenge, Journey, reward then Blowing the ____ out of locals with my arsenal of magic artifacts.

Sounds like a good mix.
User avatar
MISS KEEP UR
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:26 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 12:18 pm

Wow, that wasn't a biased OP at all. :facepalm:

That said I don't think I fall into either camp. Challenge is great as long as it is not presented as tedium (which all to often it is in video games). Demi-god characters can be quite enjoyable in small doses so long as it isn't presented in an "instant gratification" way and they make you earn it, while keeping things challenging in a non tedium kind of way. :tongue:

You know what? Why don't we just shoot for somewhere in the middle instead of having to go one extreme or the other? Lets mods sort the rest out.
User avatar
Neko Jenny
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:29 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 6:33 pm

I always thought the point of putting loots in dungeons was because the areas are supposed to be easily defensible and pose a genuine risk to the adventurer. I could see making some dungeons designed around magic such as levitation, but those should include enemies/traps/challenges based around those skills. I figure the NPCs would find a suitable location to make their "dungeon" where it fits into their strengths so you would have to play by the NPC's "rules" which is more role-playing than "I want the entire world to revolve around my character". It would make a more realistic game "world" that you are "role-playing" your character in. There should be dungeons that are challenging for every type of character possible and the problem lies when every dungeon follows the same linear "kill stuff the same way ever time, get loot" path. Make some enemies truly immune to melee/archery and some completely immune to magic. That would really make the world "colorful" in my opinion. There can be a dungeon maze consisting of hard to open locked doors, one where you can drop down to the bottom but have to deicide if you want to run for the exit through a series of deadly traps or fight some powerful opponents, one that is brightly lit and has noisy floors so people can not stealth/invisible through the whole thing.

I think the main point I am trying to make is,
DO NOT MAKE IT SO A 1 TRICK PONY CAN BYPASS ANY AND ALL CHALLENGES/CONTENT.
The ability to do so would bug me so much that I would not buy the game. That is just my opinion.
User avatar
carrie roche
 
Posts: 3527
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:18 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 2:15 pm

What about the "I want to start out svcking, but I want to work my way up to being a Demigod" camp? That is what the game was about in Morrowind, back when dice rolls were the backbone of combat and in the days before level scaling destroyed any hope of becoming powerful.
User avatar
Dorian Cozens
 
Posts: 3398
Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 9:47 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 7:19 am

I always thought the point of putting loots in dungeons was because the areas are supposed to be easily defensible and pose a genuine risk to the adventurer. I could see making some dungeons designed around magic such as levitation, but those should include enemies/traps/challenges based around those skills....
I think the main point I am trying to make is,
DO NOT MAKE IT SO A 1 TRICK PONY CAN BYPASS ANY AND ALL CHALLENGES/CONTENT.
...

I just got killed while levitating in morrowind. There was an archer I couldn't escape from :P, sure I could've won if I weren't a mage, but then I wouldn't have been able to use levitate. See it's not a "1 trick pony, as you say"
User avatar
Samantha Mitchell
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:33 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 1:54 pm

when I get the cellophane off my copy in November, I am going to enjoy myself,not spend my time worrying whether it's rpg enough, or hardcoe enough, or more like MW or OB.

This.... here, here... ditto... and anything else that says I couldn't agree more.
User avatar
Dina Boudreau
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:59 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 8:28 am

What about the "I want to start out svcking, but I want to work my way up to being a Demigod" camp? That is what the game was about in Morrowind, back when dice rolls were the backbone of combat and in the days before level scaling destroyed any hope of becoming powerful.



What I was talking about is a variety in dungeon mechanics and that is kind of separate from "uber-demigod" because that means you can do anything and everything and in that case you would be able to do anything and everything, right? That means you spend a bigillion hours leveling all skills to 100%, or something like that. Makes sense to me.

Why does every character have to be able to see all content? Is this some adventure game or something? Different characters should be able to have some unique experiences and/or limitations unless you put in the time to make your character limitless. In which case it would probably be faster to make a few specialized characters rather than 1 all-encompassing.
User avatar
Chris Jones
 
Posts: 3435
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:11 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 7:09 am

... like fighting a Goblin Warlord at level 34...

Don't :banghead: evur :banghead: mention :banghead: THAT mob! :flamed: ... I'm OK now.
User avatar
Jessica Thomson
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:10 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 5:50 pm

I just got killed while levitating in morrowind. There was an archer I couldn't escape from :P, sure I could've won if I weren't a mage, but then I wouldn't have been able to use levitate. See it's not a "1 trick pony, as you say"



You assume I was talking specifically about levitate? Think broader.
User avatar
Nice one
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:30 am

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 6:34 am

I guess I am a bit of both..

I like a challenge when it's worth my time. Say I do a quest that requires 30 minutes of my time, I actually have to think, and there are many enemies I have to defeat, I don't want a measily scroll at the end as my reward, worse yet, 150 gold which gets me nothing. I would like some sort of artifact that gives me the upper hand on my enemies for a few quests or at least until I level up a few times and the enemies become more tough.

I hate the tediousness of having to drink, sleep or eat to keep my stats up, i'm not playing a life-sim. At the same time I love having a weight limit, or having to "meditate" to gain a level and so on. There are certain boundaries devs shouldn't pass when making these kind's of games, being either too realistic or too fantastical could be the fall of the game. There needs to be that perfect balance, if there is a "CAMP" for people who like a well balanced game where your mighty power really has to be earned then I will gladly pull up a log..
User avatar
Mizz.Jayy
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:56 pm

Post » Sun May 08, 2011 2:33 pm

There are always two camps... those who agree with everything I say and those other people!
User avatar
Chloe Lou
 
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:08 am

Previous

Return to V - Skyrim