The Elder Scrolls

I remember when I played Oblivion that we had a mission regarding stealing the Elder Scrolls, or one of the elder scrolls to be exact. I last played Oblivion about a year ago so I may be wrong. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, there was no mention of the elder scrolls in Morrowind. And I'm not far enough in Daggerfall to know whether or not there is a mention of these scrolls.

My point is - what are these scrolls exactly? What's their backstory? Why are they important? The game series name is based upon these scrolls, yet they do not seem to be mentioned much in the games, almost as if they weren't important -why is this?

Thanks

I'm not an expert by any means, but let me take a crack at this anyway. From what I understand, they hold the history of Tamriel, as well as parts of the future (I think). The only people that can read these scrolls are the Moth Priests, and after reading too much they go blind. I know there's more to it, but I'm pretty those are the basics. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

They hold prophecies and history, and I think all that is was and will be. They're important and related to all the games because you are playing important stories from them, almost like your game is an epic tale from an old magic scroll to be told through history to little children by firelight.

Makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

Your character is written about (prophecized) in the Elder Scrolls.

The phrase was added to 'The Elderscrolls: Arena' because that made it sound a bit more imposing then just 'Arena'. For everything else, it's in the FAQ.

Thanks for the input. Very interesting indeed.

That opening cutscene where it looks around a mage's tower and zooms into the book? That book is one of the Elder Scrolls, chapter Daggerfall. The game itself is the story in the specific Elder Scroll.

What is said of them in Ob? They contain changing predictions of future events, which become fixed when the event happens, representing a document of historical fact. If one were able to alter the words of the scroll, you would alter history (as the gray fox did).

A dragonbreak alters history too ... and a certain Khajiit Priestess has claimed that the Khajiit can see clearly what happens during a Dragonbreak - something no other race has laid claim to. Also it is likely there are other things known and yet to be known that can change history - consider a certain Time Traveller from the future with a hand that produce a cutting light ...

The interesting bit for me is that the Moth Priests "attempt to interpret the glyphs that form upon their surface" - no one said they always succeed and it has to be said that though Julianos is the God of Knowledge - it does appear that even gods have limitations. So 'there are more things in heaven and earth than either you or I will ever know' ...

I also think it could be argued that they are so incredibly important and even sacred that that is why they are rarely mentioned. They chart the destinies of heroes, Emperors, assassins, and thieves, and contain the histories of kingdoms, cultures, and tribes. Not everyone wants to think about that (that their destinies may already be written), and others want to keep that quiet. They are also only readable if you are a Moth Priest. All these reasons may contribute to why they are rarely mentioned in the games.

Hmm - then one wonders how the Grey Fox was able to change them if they were unreadable, then how could anyone write them?

no one writes them, they write themselves. im also pretty sure that anyone can read them, but with mixed success. its not like they have words you know, its just the swirl of possibility. "the shapes of shadow, morrows not yet made"

Lol...good point. Forgot about that! Well, perhaps Lady Nerevar is correct; "anyone can read them, but with mixed success."

One another thing the OP made me think of is something that is almost certainly not answerable from lore (though perhaps it is?), and is most likely just my own speculation, but still: the Elder Scrolls, while certainly containing things like muddled fates and destinies, swirls of possibilities, and accounts of history, perhaps part of their power is not simply in the "absolute truths" regarding the past and future in the scroll, but rather in the interpretation of what is on the scroll? In other words, instead of just prophecies that must be deciphered, maybe they are much more flexible and open to many interpretations, and it is the interpretation itself that creates a fate?

I'm not sure if this makes sense, so here's an example of the two types of scrolls I'm talking about. Scroll A: A mystical, muddled message that warns that the Emperor will be assassinated; once the message is deciphered, something can be done. Scroll B: A mystical, muddled message that could have any number of possible meanings, and the reader interprets the scroll and in the process, unknowingly creates a fate from their interpretation. With Scroll A, it is a simple matter of: Figure out what it says, then act accordingly. With Scroll B, fates are tied to the interpretations of the scrolls, and the scrolls meaning/content is not fixed; fates are created by mortals, rather than by the Scrolls.

Again, this is purely speculative-- just something that came to me.

Quite interesting, the latter (scroll B ) being even more intriguing.

You can probably comprehend them a bit better if you study the real life equivalent, the Syballine Books.

In essence, they tell the entire history, past, present, and future of the world, but they're so complex that it's virtually impossible to read or comprehend without both schooling and the understanding of the context in which they appear.

Someonetookmyname (would be interested to know which name you used before )


Case in point of a mix of the two being the position of the Nerevarine. :thumbsup:

Assuming that 'writing' is merely a metaphore for the actual process of 'altering' the scrolls - where did the Grey Fox come upon the tools (metaphore again) and knowledge to alter them directly as people seem to believe happened?

Could it be that anyone's and everyones' actions has a comparable effect and thus the Grey Fox thing was a con - just about being in th espotlight?

Or does mere proximity or handling permit a greater effect on the scrolls - in which case how?

Assumin that proximity is a factor then could the reason the Moths are blind be that sight is the crucial effector? Then blind people anywhere would have little impact on reality ... etc again assumin that the Elderscrolls can actually be used to change reality themselves.

If I remember correctly, the Grey Fox was able to read the scrolls because he had the CoC steal something like a translator from the Moth Priest retirement home... he needed the specific artifact to read it enough to edit it. (Perhaps it gave him mod power over the posts of user "Elder Scrolls"?", and allowed him to hit the "edit" button?)

The Elder Scrolls first were mentioned in... Arena, with the opening character generation sequence. (actually, I believe that the entire game took place in an elder scroll, like Daggerfall did.)

1.



That is all the Curse of Nocturnal does.

What it couldn't do however was prevent the Elder Scrolls from showing it.

Changing the scrolls doesn't come up anywhere in the quest, where do you folks get the idea from that it is even possible anyway?

2.

Savilla's Stone, the thing stolen from the Moth Priests was used by the Grey Fox to scry for obstacles on the way into the palace. It isn't a pencil with attached eraser.

3.

In the ending of Oblivion Martin said that you will write the next scroll. This is possible because while the Scrolls are fixed for the past, they are not for the future and their interpretation varies with each reader.

And once an Elder Scroll proves it to be false, it is?

Yea that's one way how the trope works. Curse prevents you from doing X, you do X anyway. Curse broken. But ofcourse, it wasn't broken hard enough to make the cowl useless, that wouldn't be fun.

I'm sure it's all right up on tvTropes.org.

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And now I've got to read about Cugel The Clever.

It's one of the best books ever and Jack Vance is God. You've read enough about it, now read it.