Lore fanatics

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:47 am

I'll just point out that Fallout 3 is set on the otherside of the country, Ausir, i think you just have to accept that this is a case of false marketing/ mis-informed word of mouth/ budget costs/ different budgets in different places.



Thats a Game fail in its self...
Well it doesnt make sence so you will just have to accept that it might be this this or this...
We arnt writting our own game, we are playing one...

If you shoot someone in a FPS game and they dont die, you dont think to yourself... Well I will just have to accept they are bullet proof, if you keep doing it...
Oh well, i suppose they are just bullet proof... Fun game?

Thats leads me onto something that anooys me, In fallout 1-2 there were maybe... 3 people you couldnt kill, in Fallout 3.... 60?
You should just be able to kill them and have to live wtih the consiquences!!!
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:43 am

Vault 87 was also a special vault in that it was in reality not a vault at all rather an underground science base used to experiment with FEV. Vault 87 was very odd to me because of its exclusive use as a FEV laboratory, I thought the official canon had established the military, not private contractors like Vault-Tec, had taken FEV off the market sort of speak.


The initial work was done by a private company, West-Tek, at the request of the military. When it began showing promise as a means of creating super-soldiers, the Army slammed a lid on the whole deal and moved it to Mariposa Military Base. At no point was Vault-Tec involved in the research, which is why the concept was such a huge controversy when FO: Brotherhood of Steel came out with its "Secret Vault."

As to the robot, it was out of desperation as were the G.E.C.Ks that were considered experimental by Braun, however, in Fallout 2 there is apparently two G.E.C.Ks per vault.


But see, that's it, G.E.C.K.s were never considered experimental. Considering that they're the vault equivalent of a road-side emergency kit, they would be fairly simple to produce compared to something on the scale of Liberty Prime. Really, the only obstacle to getting Liberty Prime running was power production and management, something that would have benefited from the resources that were instead funneled into mass-producing a briefcase-sized Genesis Device.

G.E.C.Ks aren't the end all be all in technological progress, though, as I am to understand, rather they contain some seeds for planting, chemicals to bring life to bad land and information on how to build a city.


Which is exactly what they were meant to be as detailed in FO2. But suddenly in FO3, they've become capable of breaking down everything with a certain radius and reorganizing the matter into green and lush paradise. It says as much if you attempt to activate the G.E.C.K. while retrieving it from Vault 87. That is technologically far more advanced than anything that 2077 America should have been capable of producing. I might believe that Braun was enough of a genius to produce a functional example, but certainly not in a form that could be mass-produced. And it would be the height of stupidity to place that in a vault that has a high chance of failure, rather than in one of the control vaults that are designed to work exactly as intended.

With how many of the vaults that failed around DC it becomes possible that because of some of the experiments that went on in the vaults, or their very nature, G.E.C.Ks weren't sent to them. With how many were being "disposed" in Vault 87 it becomes very plausible that Vault-Tec believed they would only need one for the research team that should have been left, just because G.E.C.Ks were standard issue in most vaults doesn't mean every vault. Were talking about corporation here, not the Soviet Union.


I'm willing to believe that the lines about every vault being issued one were based upon a case of false advertising, namely that Vault-Tec knew people would not sign on the dotted line if they were told that their vault might fail, so they created the illusion that every vault had the means to rebuild itself once the timer wound down. For example, it makes no sense that vaults like Vault 101 would have a G.E.C.K., as it was never intended to be opened, or Braun's little fantasy land in Vault 112. And you could stretch it a bit and say that Vault-Tec knew some vaults were destined to fail and didn't want to waste the money in providing them a G.E.C.K. Of the vaults in the Wasteland, the easiest to believe would fail might be Vault 108, where it was designed to be handicapped pretty much from the start. But Vaults 87, 92, and 106 all seem to have the same story, namely that the experiments started going off without a hitch, and then a small error caused things to get out of control. Why would Vault 87 get a G.E.C.K., but not Vault 92 or 106?
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Sweet Blighty
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:54 pm

I don't think that's what the GECK was supposed to do in Fallout 3, though. You go off in search of one to utilize for Project Purity (I may be missing some of the details, but my understanding was that you were going to cannibalize it for useful parts as it pertained to the Project.) Anyways, it's use was only for getting the Project running, which was basically a large-scale water treatment plant. It's not supposed to be any sort of Genesis Device, all it's doing is purifying large quantities of water. (Which of course would go a long way towards making the land more easy to farm.)


As I said to ZAXA13, when you activate the G.E.C.K. prematurely in Vault 87, it tells you straight out that it will break down everything in the immediate vicinity and recombine the matter. Hence why your father decides that it's the key to making Project Purity work, as its unique properties will provide the key that was preventing large-scale tests from succeeding.

(If anything, I think the big problem is why something like that is suddenly so complicated to make - you certainly don't need anything approaching a GECK to make clean drinking water nowadays. The technology behind making clean water doesn't even need to be all that advanced. Heck you can make irradiated water safe to drink in small quantities with a little bit of bleach, if you're in a rush. You can even do a pretty effective job with a basic still if you don't mind waiting a little longer.)


Well, the bleach part is off, as it would kill the germs but leave the radiation, but the second part is correct. Another method would be collecting condensation, which is how your robotic butlers produce theirs. But those would be small amounts that would take days or even weeks to produce. To do something on the scale of Project Purity, namely purifying every drop of water in the Tidal Basin, would be a massive undertaking. The fact that a small team of scientists managed to produce a device that could do something like that is a bit like a rocket club building a Saturn V rocket.
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clelia vega
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:06 pm

Well, the bleach part is off, as it would kill the germs but leave the radiation, but the second part is correct.

Oops, yeah you're right. I'd misread something in some of my related research.
Another method would be collecting condensation, which is how your robotic butlers produce theirs. But those would be small amounts that would take days or even weeks to produce. To do something on the scale of Project Purity, namely purifying every drop of water in the Tidal Basin, would be a massive undertaking. The fact that a small team of scientists managed to produce a device that could do something like that is a bit like a rocket club building a Saturn V rocket.

Which is possibly another problem - why bother with cleaning up all the radiation in the whole tidal basin when all you really need to be worrying about is cleaning out the water you're going to be using? Purifying water through more traditional means for use in irrigation would take some time to get going, but once started you have a fairly constant flow of purified water for use without going through all of the trouble of cleaning the radiation out of all the water everywhere (something that will happen naturally anyways...)

Worrying about the GECK seems a little trivial to me if you want to really nit-pick, I think. I mean why go through all of that bother when what you really need to be doing is getting some moderate-level water purifying going on? Once you have a steady infrastructure of clean water to use for crops and drinking water, you can worry about larger-scale things like speeding up the natural process of filtering the radiation out of the water. (Sure, you still have to worry about fallout from rain water, but that's only going to have a minimal effect 200 years after the War.)

If Project Purity was just going to be a large-scale water purifying plant, then you don't really need a GECK for that. But you wouldn't have to really change the questline around, either. Vaults are still going to be a good source of scavenged tech, so maybe instead of going off in search of a GECK to make everything great and wonderful (and really GECKs were a questionable addition in the first place) you would have just needed to go out and find a Water Chip. Would have served the same purpose, but on a more "realistic" level.

Personally, my problem with the whole Project Purity thing is that now we don't have to worry about radiation on the West Coast, you're already gimping some of the challenge for any future releases that take place in the area. Rather than Fallout 4 being about humanity having taken one baby step on the way to rebuilding civilization, you'll have already solved one of the major problems to survival in one fell swoop. (Though I suppose it'd have been less of a reason for you to sacrifice yourself otherwise.)
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Jeff Turner
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:21 pm

Also, maybe Project Purity will clean the water in the tidal basin from radiation. But will it desalinate it?
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Sammie LM
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:05 pm

The funny thing is, I never felt like I was trying to survive in the games, or the world itself was. It always felt like that step was skipped and everyone's already figured it out. Radiation was never a problem in Fallout 1 or 2, so solving it on the East Coast isn't much of an issue either. I'd like to see what the third DLC has to offer in this are, because it promises you to be able to see the change a bit. I wouldn't expect green plants still for a long time, just less sickness from water and the like.
My observance of the games has been this: It isn't man vs. nature that's the problem, it's man vs. man. Fallout 1, 2, and 3's large conflicts have been that. Each town has suffered from smaller problems of the same thing. Fallout 4 could have the world having less of a problem with radiation poisoning in the East, but they still have the problem of Raiders, mutants, mobsters, etc.
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Tom Flanagan
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:48 am

Also, maybe Project Purity will clean the water in the tidal basin from radiation. But will it desalinate it?

Another good point. :)

Now with Project Purity we've solved in one fell swoop what nature is going to care of anyways. But we're still left with the problem of making clean drinking water... I still think maybe (and admittedly this is easier to say what with hindsight being 20/20) it would have made more sense if you saw any evidence of there being a large-scale desalinization plant before work on the Project started. I mean, if I was a super-dedicated Wasteland Scientist trying to save humanity that'd be my first step. You know, start small and then scale your projects up in stages. I get more of an idea in F3 that they started out with trying to get this huge project working without doing a lot of the intermediary work.
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Elizabeth Lysons
 
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