I?m kind of freaked out about the game in the last couple of weeks.
So I wondered what is the storyline in Europe?
Is there anything published from Interplay or even Bethesda?
Are there any concepts standing for possible Fanfic?s?

Are there maybe some design team members who can drop a line here? ^^

In 2052, the European Commonwealth (FO equiv of the EU) responded to rising Middle Eastern oil prices by declaring war and moving to seize the oil fields, sparking off the Resource Wars. The violence and warfare that began ultimately led to dissolution of the UN when most states left rather than allow themselves to be constrained. There was a limited nuclear exchange between the EC and Middle Eastern nations, but ultimately nothing solid came from it. Finally, the oil fields ran dry and the fighting ended, because there was no longer a goal for either side. After that, the EC ate itself, as the various nation states started bickering over who deserved the remaining resources more.

Nothing's really known after that, as most of the world's attention by that time was focused on the war between the US and China, which resulted in the nuclear exchange we know as the Great War. One would assume that the EC, in keeping with its treaty obligations, launched its own nukes at the ChiComs and was bombarded in response. But there's no evidence to back that up, so its anybody's guess. Europe may not have been bombed back into the Stone Age, but it would not have gotten away unscathed.

hmm what about NATO. the UN Is disbanded but surely europe would stand as one against the middle east ..

would be interesting to know who would fight together..

im thinking.. UK, france germany poland? Would probably team up and the nords? because of historical reasons and the smaller regions of eastern europe

spain + portugal would just bum or bomb each other as they always have

italy -- well anyone that would risk taking them on board

russia - with the east

actually I could see it getting REAL messy lol

There is no Russian Federation in the Fallout Universe, its still the USSR. As for Germany...it's no doubt still a divided nation(West Germany and East Germany). Eastern Europe, and with reference to Poland, would still be part of the Warsaw Pact. Also, certain nations like Yugoslavia, Spain, Portugal etc. would probably not have involved themselves in any alliances, due to their political leanings.

Assumption:

My assumpiton would be that after, or even while the ressource wars, that france and germany would team up first. Followed by the UK and Poland.
Poland would have liberated Chech Republic and is fighting fiercley against the Ussr (which by that time would have been overrun by chinese forces without mayor resistances).
At first the European Commonwealth would have sealed, or tried to seal an non aggreisve pact with china, thus allowing them passage through the channel, which made the landing in canada possible.
After US victory in Canada the European Commonwealth breaks up the pact with China leading to a war at the polish borders. Both forces are eaqually stationed but the EC fears, that china will overrun them soon due to the vast ammount of refreshments. So they decide to launch nukes from France to cut off the supply lines. Also major Air Attacks by 75% of the Planes available in the EC to destroy launching pads in China and some smaller states in the Middle East. Eventually China would launch a havoc on the EC defeating them within 3 months.

Another assumption would be, that the governments build up nuke shelters paying insanely high license fees to Vault Tec, the struggle of building them leads to a solid bankrupcy which leads to the decision to sell the rights of building and running the shelter to huge company?s. Eventually Vault Tec opens a European franchise and succesfully builds ~80% of the shelters that were planned before the nukes are going down on the EU. Rumors say, that Europe Vault Inc is planning scientific studys in the european vaults but no proof is ever given....

This is what I think might happen but I am not a physic.

After all the oil was gone the contries would all be dissolved. Cities would becomet there own country since the existing countries would not be able to patrol their borders without fuel for vehicles. With no fuel all the transportation by trucking would be halted. Remember the U.S. was the only one with the nuclear powered vehicles.

So then all of the cities would fight to become large countries. This is exactly what happend in Mongolia before Ghengis Kahn. The entire country was just a whole bunch of tribes. It was not until Ghengis Kahn started the war then it was a connected country.

P.S. Since the European and Middle Eastern had no knowledge of nuclear weopons. Yet this was a alternate reality so they might have gained knowledge.

P.S.S. And Africa is a third-world country and I highly doubt this was issue was resoulved, so nuclear capabilities are completely non-existent.

What I mean by this is that there is hope that not the entire world was destroyed. I just have one doubt if europe was not destroyed by A-bombs then why would Mioraty have come to America

On the contrary, If Europe was destroyed by A-bombs , Moriarty could not have come to America (Actually, I think Moriarty was born in the States and puts on his accent, a better example would be Tenpenny).

In the Fallout world, every nation was against every other. The USA invaded Canada, for example. Fallout's timeline says that their equivalent of the European Union failed and dissolved as its member nations all chose competition over cooperation when resources became scarce.

So, based on this, you wouldn't have things like a France + Germany team-up. The friendship between both countries in the real world is from the reconciliation effort that followed World War II, when politicians realized that if the mutual enmity that had been going on since 1871 continued, a new world war would happen eventually. Well, Europe as a whole was too weakened by the two previous conflicts so the USA and China managed to beat them to the punch. But you can bet that the enmity remained in the Fallout world; and they fought again.

The United Kingdom probably attacked everyone else, concentrating on whoever appeared to be the strongest at the moment. It's a tradition in Britain to do everything you can to prevent the continental countries from being united, because as soon as one of the big land powers there isn't threatened by its neighbors anymore, it could build ships and invade England. (In the real world, this was the reason why in the early twentieth century, Britain dropped its old friendship with Germany and instead sided with what had been for several centuries her ancestral enemy, France. The entire reason for the Entente Cordiale was "Germany is getting freakin' scary". Before the various German states were united into a single country, France was the most threatening European nation; after that it was Germany.)

Belgium was probably invaded in less than two hours after the beginning of the war, as usual. Italy probably split in two, with the rich, industrialized northern half no longer wanting to share its dwindling resources with the poor, agricultural south. Spain doesn't have many industrial resources which is why the country fell in status considerably in the Modern Era, going from a great colonial power to one of the poorest European country. Greece and Turkey fought each other. In the Balkans, everybody fought everybody else, and Northern Italy probably tried to take advantage of the confusion to seize some regions it has always claimed (Istria and Dalmatia notably). In Eastern Europe, well, the Soviet Union survived in the Fallout universe, so they're still all puppets governed from the Kremlin. I'd bet that they suffered anyway as more of their resources were diverted to Russia than before; this might have weakened some of them enough for invasion by neighboring countries.

I posted a rather detailed answer to something a lot like this here last night, but it was deleted for being too political. Here is a simple less anolytical version that should not get me into any trouble. If it goes too far, my apologies but I'm keeping this very basic.

I'd imagine Europe would be dead. Probably the most dead place on the planet.

Simply put if The East and West went to war any "union" or "commonwealth" would be split idealogically since we're still dealing with seperate nations. Some would go east, some would go west. Unlike the usual depictions of a nuclear exchange with all the lines drawn back and forth, I think there would be a lot of lines heading towards europe from both sides, as well as a lot of lines going from one part of europe to another.

Now I understand that Europeans both want their post apocolyptic coolness, as well as some serious hope of something surviving there, but I just don't see it realistically (of course in fantasy anything can happen theoretically, but if your trying to be realistic... well things are grim). It's important to understand that the US has the abillity to intercept missles with submarines as well as the possibility of some kind of "Star Wars" system that may or may not secretly exist. The missles coming from quite a ways away. With Europe, you'd be dealing with guys firing missles right over a border. If say England and France went at it today, even if one side was winning conventionally, the loser would fire their bombs to take their enemy with them (Mutually Assured Destruction) and both sides would be like totally dead given the realitvely close proximity of each other. No submarine interception or satellites to shoot things down over a huge ocean are going to be effective.

I definatly get the impression that things got interesting because the US Invaded Canada in Fallout. Leading me to believe that Canada probably sympathized with european powers who were in turn sympathized with Russia/China. Or perhaps they simply figured the US was going down.

I could see it being remotely plausible that DC could survive to some extent and perhaps start recovering in 200 years. But this is largely because of the fact that the US has nuclear countermeasures (even not counting Star Wars). Our interception technology is arguably the best in the world, as is our guidance systems. We also have more nukes than anyone. At any rate, while DC would be a priority target for everyone going after the US, it would also probably be the most heavily defended in a crisis like this.

Using some imagination, shutting down interception systems like that might very well be why China was trying to set up Commando Teams. This is however away from the subject of how Europe likely fared in a nuclear war.

I said more (in detail) previously, but I believe it was too political. I tried to keep the above minimal, and I'm also working within what is already in the Fallout Lore (ie The US and Canada going to war).


The basic point is that I'd expect Europe to be a series of lifeless glass filled craters where even microorganisms struggle for survival.


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Outside of the arena of realism there is also looking at this from a game design standpoint.

While on one hand I could find it fun to stride through the ruins of Paris, the lopsided skeleton of the Eiffel tower depicted against a blood red sky, while the radioactively reanimated swarms of dead come pouring out of the famous Parisian catacombs.

Or to say look at the shattered face of Big Ben, storm Raiders and Mutants holding The Tower Of London, or loot Buckingham Palace. (hey I'm American, there is probably cooler stuff there, but I mostly know stereotypes. I'd personally love to set off the wreckage of a nuclear powered double decker bus though).

On the other hand you'd wind up having to deal with totally new species for the game, and pretty much rebuild the entire lore from the ground up from a practical perspective. You'd also have to seriously work on the hand to hand aspects of the game, because one of the big things about Europe as opposed to the US is the tight control of firearms. They aren't non-existant, but noone would have been pulling them out of pretty much every home and glove compartment, and there wouldn't have been enough to provide spare parts in quantities to keep them all running for 200 years to arm bands of raiders and such. I mean sure, there might be some out there, but I'd imagine getting an Assault Rifle would be about as rare as a Gatling Laser and equivilent level loot.

With that much hand to hand combat I'd imagine it might be like an oblivion mod more than anything.

Such are my thoughts.




>>>----Therumancer--->

Europe can't be entirely dead if Tenpenny was born in England after the Great War.

I think he was full of it, and trying to give himself an exotic appeal. If there was any kind of effective inter-ocean travel going on it would have changed things dramatically.

People believe this, but they also somehow seem to believe that President Eden could have somehow been a happy child with a dog frolicing around Rural Kentucky.

Hey, who knows, Maybe we'll get some answers in the upcoming expansion packs?



>>>----Therumancer--->

Emil Pagliarulo confirmed that Tenpenny is from England:

Okay, granted.

However that still makes very little sense.

Not so much because of my points about europe likely being dead, which is just for the purpose of debate. But rather because if you had boats being able to ferry people back and forth that would change the entire way things are playing out with The Enclave, BoS, etc...


>>>----Therumancer--->

On what evidence? Before the end of the resource wars, the European Commonwealth was a single superstate (Think of a natural progression from the current European Union), Europe has a very similar ideology whether you are from England or Greece. Trust me, NO European country would go East (at least not voluntarily). The breakdown of the European Commonwealth occurred after the oilfields in the middle east dried up at which point it became a 'survival of the fittest' mentality.



But the US would survive? No sir, it would not. In fact, realistically Europe would probably have not been Nuked to the extent that the US was. Why? Because there are no resources left! What threat do they pose, they are too busy fighting each other! The UK is confirmed to be in a bad state but that's probably due to the resource wars rather than nuclear attack. Which is why Tenpenny is perfectly healthy and strong enough to survive a transatlantic journey. IMHO.



The US does not currently have the ability to shoot down Nuclear Missiles, it is theoretically possible but you would have just as much chance by shooting flak in the sky. As for geographical distance, it is of no relevence at all, an ICMB traveling 100 miles or 5000 miles does not make a jot of difference.



There are enough nukes in the UK alone to destroye the US. The worldwide number of nukes in 2008 is speculated to be enough to destroy the entire planet 6 times over. I can shoot you in the head once or 5 times but you will still be just as dead. Again, you can not effectively defend yourself from an all out nuclear attack.

It's all opinion at the moment but I think realistically Europe would be just as screwed at the States, but probably nowhere near as radioactive.

Actually, we don't know whether the European Commonwealth was a single superstate or a loose federation. The only thing we know about it is the name and its history of conflict with the Middle East.

BAD FORUMER! first off Africa isn't a country and secondly I know that Britain at least developed nuclear weapons on their own (using intelligence stolen off the US because they wouldn't co operate, despite our assistance on the manhattan project) so we would have had knowledge of nuclear weaponry.

True Ausir but regardless It was certainly a political entity. Also a United Europe would be a superpower on par with the States. If the US had a working SDI system (which it clearly didnt) you can bet your ass Europe would too.

Europe simply would not be a high priority target. Lets take the UK at the end of the Resource Wars. No oil means no plastic. We can envisage a country that has been fighting for two decades, has probably suffered a limited nuclear exchange with the middle east. We have a breakdown of communications, conflict with our previous allies, starvation and desease. Why nuke us? Who would want too? And dont say because we have nukes because if we are that screwed you know what Im doing with them? Selling them for food, China, the US, Russia, I dont care. If we were still nuclear then my only threat is France, and visa versa so guess who Im making an allience with?

Then we'd have to deal with all the fallout following the great war. So yes, we are screwed but still not as screwed as the US.

Anyway... if you were going to do a post apocalypitic Britain, you'd have to include and explain Triffids

Are you for real, or is that Political satire? (politics is banned!)

In the real world, Apartied South Africa had a nuclear weapons program.

The way it disintegrated into a bunch of squabbling nations says it probably was much more "loose federation" than "single superstate". After all, the two superstates -- USA and USSR -- survived the Resources War without disintegrating. If the European nations were able to break free from the Commonwealth and fight each others, it necessarily means that European integration hadn't been pushed very far...

Not really Gez, after the USA gained independence I'm sure the country was united as one, then a little conflict called the civil war came along and that was primarily over slavery not nations/states trying to just survive.

Stability can fragment in a heartbeat. US civil war, devolution of the British Empire, the fall of Rome, the end of the USSR and cold war, and they are just the first things that came to mind!

about europe after the great war, i think in 200 years europe turned into the second dark age, wich al it's consequences (piracy, post apocalyptic vikings, the great plague, myths and legends about honest and just rulers like King Arthur) .... Warlords taken over control of cities, most likely with primtieve weapons in maybe the one with a gun is the leader ..... 'waiting on the new charlemagne maybe a ghoul to take over control and try to unifie europe ....

Macros, thats exactly what I think!

Hmm well England had a war with the French that lasted 100 years so the 'long alliance' card is a bit dodgey. In my opinion the continental countries would have had to fight it out. And due to the lack of fuel none of them would have the ability to launch an invasion of Engalnd. Even if we did get bombed i think the UK as a whole would have been the least affected by the European War. So once the dust had settled we would emerge from the ashes and seize control of the continent. RULE BRITANIA!