Strange Fire Shield, Frost Shield, Shock Shield bug : IV

» Fri May 13, 2011 3:19 pm

Greetings,

I was playing last night, and discovered something very odd. Worse, I don't have any idea which mod(s) may be involved, so I am starting this new thread. It's pretty easy to describe, really. In short, my character is losing fire/frost/shock shield armor bonuses whenever going through a loading point (door, fast travel, what have you). Unequip then re-equip, and the bonus is back, but then gone again as soon as another load occurs. Isn't that strange?

So, has anyone experienced this before, or something similar? Or any suggestions as to what it could be? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,
veg

Load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:
00 Oblivion.esm
01 Cybiades.esm [Version 2.0]
02 Jog_X_Mod.esm
03 EnhancedWeather.esm [Version 1.3.7]
04 Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm
05 Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm
06 Cobl Main.esm [Version 1.72]
07 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.34]
08 Mart's Monster Mod.esm [Version 3.7b3p3]
09 VASE - core.esm
0A TamrielTravellers.esm [Version 1.39c]
0B FCOM_Convergence.esm [Version 0.9.9MB3]
0C Armamentarium.esm [Version 1.35]
0D Artifacts.esm [Version 1.1]
0E Kvatch Rebuilt.esm
0F bookplacing.esm [Version 1]
10 NNWAEMaster.esm
11 CM Partners.esm
12 HorseCombatMaster.esm
13 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.2.4]
14 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
15 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
16 DLCShiveringIsles.esp [Version 1.4.0]
++ Shivering OOO.esp
17 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp
18 Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp
19 Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp
1A Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp
++ FCOM_Francescos.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp [Version 0.9.9]
1B FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp [Version 0.9.9]
** LoadingScreens.esp
1C EnhancedWeather.esp [Version 1.3.5]
1D Enhanced Weather - Across-The-Borders Mods Patch.esp [Version Final]
++ Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp
++ Symphony of Violence.esp
1E WindowLightingSystem.esp
1F Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp
20 Ayleid Loot EXtension - OOO Dungeons.esp
21 ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp
++ Item interchange - Extraction.esp [Version 0.76]
22 RAEVWD Cities.esp [Version 1.7]
23 RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp [Version 1.5]
++ RealWalk.esp
24 Reznod_Mannequin.esp
25 Enhanced Economy.esp [Version 3.4.3]
26 DLCHorseArmor.esp
27 DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.5]
28 DLCOrrery.esp
29 DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.3]
2A DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
2B DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.4]
++ MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp
++ ArtifactsFemaleArmor.esp
++ playable golden saint and dark seducer armour.esp
2C Slof's Boners! v5.esp
2D Thieves Arsenal.esp
2E XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp
** Armamentium female.esp
2F KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp [Version 1.2]
++ FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp [Version 0.9.9]
30 Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp
31 Cobl Glue.esp [Version 1.72]
32 Cobl Si.esp [Version 1.63]
33 OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp [Version 1.72]
++ FCOM_Cobl.esp [Version 0.9.9]
34 Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp
35 FCOM_BobsArmory.esp [Version 0.9.9]
36 Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp
++ FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp [Version 0.9.9]
37 Oblivion WarCry EV.esp
38 FCOM_WarCry.esp [Version 0.9.9MB3]
39 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.34]
++ OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp [Version 0.5]
++ OMOBS.esp [Version 1.0]
++ OMOBS_SI.esp [Version 1.0]
3A OMOBS Optional Combat Settings.esp [Version 1.0]
3B ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp [Version 1.35]
3C Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
3D FCOM_Convergence.esp [Version 0.9.9Mb3]
3E FCOM_RealSwords.esp [Version 0.9.9]
3F Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ FCOM_SaferRoads.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_LessRats.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
40 Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
41 Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
42 Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
43 Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
44 Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp
++ VASE - Vanilla SI.esp
++ Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp [Version 3.7b3p3]
++ TamrielTravellerAdvscript.esp [Version 1.40Alpha]
45 TamrielTravellers4OOO.esp [Version 1.39c]
46 TamrielTravellersItemsCobl.esp [Version 1.39c]
47 ShiveringIsleTravellers.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ ShiveringIsleTravellersFriendlyFactions4MMM.esp [Version 1.39c]
++ FCOM_TamrielTravelers.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp [Version 0.9.9]
++ FCOM_Archery.esp
++ FCOM_Archery_Armamentarium.esp
++ FCOM_Archery_Artifacts.esp
++ FCOM_Archery_RealSwords.esp
++ FCOM_Archery_MMM_H&C.esp
++ ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp [Version 2.01]
++ ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp [Version 1.35]
++ Fransfemale.esp
** LoadingScreens-OOO.esp
48 Geomancy & Gem Dust OOO.esp
49 OOO-WaterFish.esp [Version 1.34]
++ EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp
4A Artifacts.esp [Version 1.1]
++ Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp [Version 1.0]
4B HeartOftheDead.esp [Version 6.2]
4C Kvatch Rebuilt.esp
++ Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp
4D Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp
4E GlenvarCastle.esp
4F LostSwordOfTheAylied.esp
50 LostSwordOfTheAylied - OBSE Add-On.esp
51 Malevolent.esp
52 MountainTower.esp [Version 6.0]
53 NNWAREAyleidDungeons_Series1EV.esp [Version 2.2]
54 NNWARE06-RhyeliaEmeroEV.esp
55 NNWAEDungeons-Series2EV.esp
56 The Ayleid Steps.esp [Version 3.3]
57 TheForgottenShields.esp
58 thievery.esp
59 thievery - EE patch.esp [Version 1.0]
5A VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
5B Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp
5C Apachii_Heroes_Store.esp
5D DLCfrostcrag.esp
5E FrostcragRebornCobl.esp
5F Cybiades.esp [Version 2.1]
60 CybiadesDungeon.esp [Version 2.1]
61 TOTF.esp
62 The Lost Spires.esp
63 Lost Paladins of the Divines.esp
64 MannimarcoRevisited.esp
65 MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp [Version 0.1]
66 bartholm.esp
67 bartholm - EE patch.esp [Version 1.0]
68 Harvest [Flora].esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp [Version 3.0.0]
69 Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp [Version 3.0.0]
++ Book Placement v2.esp [Version 2.0]
6A Bag of Holding.esp [Version 1.5.0]
++ Cobl Bookplacement.esp
6B DropLitTorchOBSE.esp [Version 2.4]
6C EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
6D P1DkeyChain.esp [Version 5.00]
6E Salmo the Baker, Cobl.esp [Version 3.08]
++ Short Grass V3.esp
6F Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp [Version 3.1.1]
70 Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp [Version 1.0]
71 Quest Award Leveller.esp [Version 2.0.1]
++ Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp [Version 2.1.0]
72 StarX Vanilla Vampires Revised.esp
73 StarX VVR_OOO Patch.esp
74 SupremeMagicka.esp [Version 0.90]
75 SM_ShiveringIsles.esp [Version 0.86]
++ SM_OOO.esp [Version 0.89]
++ SM_MMM.esp [Version 0.89]
++ SM_COBL.esp [Version 0.86]
76 SM_EnchantStaff.esp [Version 0.80]
++ SM_UnlockSpells.esp [Version 0.70]
++ SM_Scrolls.esp [Version 0.84]
++ SM_SigilStone.esp [Version 0.83]
77 MidasSpells.esp
78 Multiple Enchantments.esp
79 attack and hide medium v2.1.esp
7A Deadlier Sneaking 1.1.esp
7B Deadly Reflex Bow Sway.esp
7C Kobu's Character Advancement System.esp
7D Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp
7E Mayu's Animation Overhaul.esp
7F actors_in_charge.esp
++ Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp [Version 0.76]
++ Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag Reborn.esp [Version 0.76]
++ Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp [Version 0.78]
80 CM Partners.esp
81 CM Partners Special NPCs.esp
82 CM Partners NPC.esp
83 CM Partners More NPCs.esp
84 CM Partners Marker NPCs.esp
85 CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp
86 Cobl Races.esp [Version 1.52]
** Cobl Races TNR.esp [Version 1.53]
** Cobl Races TNR SI.esp [Version 1.53]
++ TamrielTravellers Cosmetics Cobl or RBP.esp
++ EVE_KhajiitFix.esp
87 TheOubliette.esp
88 Get Wet.esp
89 Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp [Version 01]
8A DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp
++ SM_DeadlyReflex.esp [Version 0.86]
8B Bashed Patch, 0.esp
8C SWalk.esp
8D OOO-Magic_Script_Effect_Fix.esp [Version 1.33]
8E FormID Finder4.esp
8F Streamline 3.1.esp

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:17 pm

Try taking out the following:

OOO Script Effect Fix
Multiple Enchantments

...that is all I can think of really. I do not think you need the OOO plugin anyway. If you check out your list with TES4View, I believe SM incorporates that change. I think there used to be an SM add-on that did the same thing anyway, but I could be mixing that up with something else...check it out.

Edit: I would also try unchecking, one-at-a-time, plugins checked in the Import Scripts section of the bashed patch. Maybe you should try unchecking all of them at first. There might be a script conflict somewhere.

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:39 pm

Try taking out the following:

OOO Script Effect Fix
Multiple Enchantments

...that is all I can think of really. I do not think you need the OOO plugin anyway. If you check out your list with TES4View, I believe SM incorporates that change. I think there used to be an SM add-on that did the same thing anyway, but I could be mixing that up with something else...check it out.

Edit: I would also try unchecking, one-at-a-time, plugins checked in the Import Scripts section of the bashed patch. Maybe you should try unchecking all of them at first. There might be a script conflict somewhere.

Wow, that was fast! OK, I will try these suggestions and see what happens.

Thanks!

*** EDIT ***
You are definitely correct about the OOO plugin and SM. I don't need that at all. Thanks!
This was not the cause of the issue, but it's good to get this out.

It does not appear that Multiple Enchantments was the cause either. Moving on to the scripts.

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:06 am

Well, so far no luck. With all of the above done, I'm still seeing this. I've tried all kinds of search strings in Google and am getting absolutely nowhere. Hoping someone has seen something like this before...

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:34 pm

Maybe you need to do a clean save and update of some mod, but I do not know which one that might be if removing the multiple enchantment mod does not make a difference. Did you try saving and re-launching after removing the mod, instead of just removing it and testing?

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:04 am

Maybe you need to do a clean save and update of some mod, but I do not know which one that might be if removing the multiple enchantment mod does not make a difference. Did you try saving and re-launching after removing the mod, instead of just removing it and testing?

Yeah, sure did. Between each step, even, just to be sure I knew what the culprit was when I found it. Updating one of these mods is probably what I need to do, but like you, I'm not sure which!

This question is more a general UI one than an Oblivion mod one, but since the armor rating is shown in the UI, do you think it could be related to DarNified? That just occurred to me...

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:34 pm

Not really. I do not see how it fits into the equation. Whether or not it shows the enchantment should not effect is being present...I just do not see how it fits...What is that NNWAE master, and are only specific weapons affected?

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:03 am

Not really. I do not see how it fits into the equation. Whether or not it shows the enchantment should not effect is being present...I just do not see how it fits...What is that NNWAE master, and are only specific weapons affected?

Gotcha... like I said, more of a general question.

NNWAE is the master for http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23384. I'll see what I can tell about what's affected momentarily...

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:29 pm

Is the enchantment on armor, clothing, jewelry?

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:51 am

I still feel like the issue is multiple enchantments. When did this issue start, by the way?

Edit: my mistake...

» Fri May 13, 2011 11:08 am

Is the enchantment on armor, clothing, jewelry?

Jewelry, though I have not tested armor or clothing. The piece that alerted me was the Lesser Prism of Ice from Frostcrag Reborn. It is a necklace w/ 4 enchantments, including 15% Frost Shield. Since then I used then console to add Vanilla Frost, Fire, and Shock Shield rings for testing. The effect is identical, so I don't think it has anything to do w/ any particular piece of jewelry.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:58 pm

Are you using one of the bashed patch jewelry tweaks? Try turning off all of those, "make playable", "show", etc.

» Fri May 13, 2011 6:01 pm

Well... Doesn't SM change the elemental Shields so that they do damage to those around you, rather then increase defense and elemental resists? I know it does that because that was one of the things I wanted it for. But I ended up not using it because I wanted LAME, long story short, I'm going to download it again.

I think I remember reading that it has a INI which allows you to change certain "Features" which you don't want to use, such as mysticism based absorbs and various things. Is that covered by the INI, and if so, have you turned it off(or if it defaults to off, on)?

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:56 am

Are you using one of the bashed patch jewelry tweaks? Try turning off all of those, "make playable", "show", etc.

Wow... no, I'm not, but that's another good guess. I read where the "show" settings in particular could be problematic, so I left them alone, as well as the others. The only tweaks I set are the camera chase distance, DarNified books, and the bow reach fix.

» Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 pm

Well... Doesn't SM change the elemental Shields so that they do damage to those around you, rather then increase defense and elemental resists? I know it does that because that was one of the things I wanted it for. But I ended up not using it because I wanted LAME, long story short, I'm going to download it again.

I think I remember reading that it has a INI which allows you to change certain "Features" which you don't want to use, such as mysticism based absorbs and various things. Is that covered by the INI, and if so, have you turned it off(or if it defaults to off, on)?

Hmmm... yes, there is an INI for SM that allows you to set a number of options. I will see if that is in there. Thanks for the suggestion. And for what it's worth, I recall something about elemental damage, but the reference was to Deadly Reflex's elemental damage, I believe. I'll look back over that.

» Fri May 13, 2011 10:33 am

If you have not been tinkering with it much, I do not think SM is the problem. I have used that mod since...I do not even know when, and this problem is alien to me.

After dropping the multiple enchantments plugin, did you try getting new jewelry, to see if it was affected as well?

» Fri May 13, 2011 9:33 am

If it is the SM changing it to do damage rather than provide shield, then I think you may be seeing an update issue for the menu.

If you remove and re add the amulet with the effects, then SM probably changes the effect right away, but the Armor Rating won't update until you leave and re-enter the menu.

Have you tested it without going through a door?

» Fri May 13, 2011 2:00 pm

If you have not been tinkering with it much, I do not think SM is the problem. I have used that mod since...I do not even know when, and this problem is alien to me.

Well, this is what was referenced, I believe, from the SM readme:

"Elemental Shields now no longer provide extra armor protection. They still provide the extra resistance to a particular element but they damage enemies that surround you when enemies attack you with melee weapons. You may need to keep out of melee distance with foes using such spells. You can use the ini to turn off this effect and return to its normal usage."

But I'm not certain that this applies to enchantments. It applies to the spells, for certain, but does that translate directly to the enchantments? I really don't know (yet).

» Fri May 13, 2011 7:11 pm

I would think that it does apply to enchantments. The magic effect should be what matters, not how it is applied...I guess. I totally missed that bit...huh, I like how SM plays by default, so I hardly adjust anything...

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:06 pm

Bingo! It's normal SM.
From the Tesnexus page:

Elemental Shields now no longer provide extra armor protection. They still provide the extra resistance to a particular element but they damage enemies that surround you when enemies attack you with melee weapons. You may need to keep out of melee distance with foes using such spells. You can use the ini to turn off this effect and return to its normal usage.

EDIT: Just a tad too late.

But if it effects spell, why wouldn't it effect enchantments?

» Fri May 13, 2011 4:44 am

@showler
You are correct. It wasn't just load screens, it was any time I pulled up the UI. So, apparently it is possible to "fake out" the UI with this setting in SM (not that that's a bad thing, just worth noting!)

@Tomlong
I like SM as well, but never thought of that as a cause. Now it seems so obvious, but it wasn't to me at first!
*** EDIT *** And you did help to catch yet another redundancy/error in my load order, so it was doubly worth it!

@YX33A
Yay! You hit it square on the head! And yeah, I suppose it is logical that spells and enchantments would work the same way, but I haven't done anything with them directly myself, so I didn't want to make any assumptions! Now I just have to decide what I want to use. The elemental effect is pretty cool in SM, so idk... decisions, decisions...

@All
Thank you! This community rocks! Oh, and I LOVE this game!

» Fri May 13, 2011 5:22 pm

I am glad you got it working. I must be a really unobservant user because I miss things like this all of the time. I miss out on all but the most random SM bugs, have not had a serious problem with Wrye Bash, my inventory does not disappear, and I help with all sorts of load order issues, but have not had a working setup since upgrading FCOM once summer, haha. I have not really played the game since last summer, however...well, I can be happier if I can at least help other people's games get into a smooth running state.

Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

» Fri May 13, 2011 12:01 pm

@showler
You are correct. It wasn't just load screens, it was any time I pulled up the UI. So, apparently it is possible to "fake out" the UI with this setting in SM (not that that's a bad thing, just worth noting!)

It's a common problem. OBSE has not yet found a way to update the information on the menu displays without closing and reopening that menu. A "refresh" function would allow a lot of things to operate more cleanly.

Note however, that as soon as SM makes the change to the spell the armor bonus is no longer there. The screen is giving false information until you force it to refresh itself.

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:58 am

I am glad you got it working. I must be a really unobservant user because I miss things like this all of the time. I miss out on all but the most random SM bugs, have not had a serious problem with Wrye Bash, my inventory does not disappear, and I help with all sorts of load order issues, but have not had a working setup since upgrading FCOM once summer, haha. I have not really played the game since last summer, however...well, I can be happier if I can at least help other people's games get into a smooth running state.

Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

Have not played the game since last summer??? Now that is unfortunate. Well, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge here. I don't know how you keep it fresh without playing the game, but I'm glad you do!

Thanks again!

» Fri May 13, 2011 8:13 pm

It's a common problem. OBSE has not yet found a way to update the information on the menu displays without closing and reopening that menu. A "refresh" function would allow a lot of things to operate more cleanly.

Note however, that as soon as SM makes the change to the spell the armor bonus is no longer there. The screen is giving false information until you force it to refresh itself.

Understood. Thanks for the clarification. Everything is falling nicely into place now. Thanks again!