Recently my mod list in Oblivion has gotten so big (over 200, but less than the hardcode limit) that I started realising having one more mod installed can cause major instability in the game, with symptoms such as:

- pink meshes
- black textures
- certain game functions dont work, such as starting dialogues or the wait button
- when any of the above happens, CTD is almost a certainty (most often at the Imperial City)

My main mods being:

- OOO
- MMM
- Deadly Reflex 5
- Supreme Magicka
- QTP 3
- CM partners
- Better Cities (without imperial city plugin)
- a few Unnique Landscapes
- Weather All Natural
- RAEVWD
- and about 100-150 other minor mods merged with Gecko or Bash Patch

When the crash starts happening every now and then, I had to choose from which Unique Landscapes or Better Cities plugins to sacrifice, after removing a few of those plugins the game would work perfectly again... but it seems like there is a very delicate balance between the game working smoothly or not at all, and I think I've got to the very point where installing one more mod can tip that balance.

I understand that 255 is the hardcoded limit to how many Esps you can have while running Oblivion, so I try to merge a few mods to keep the count generally around 200. If I didnt merge any of the armour/misc mods, the total count could be as high as 300-350 mods.

So my main question is, aside from the number of Esp limit, is there some sort of mod resource limit to the Oblivion engine?

Also has anyone else came across a similar problem before?

From TESIV:POSItive>Troubleshooting

Post your load order please. There is a limit for ESP(/M)s and bsa's in your data folder that is around 350-400 if I recall correctly. Tentatively I would suggestmoving some of your merged mods out of the data folder and see if that helps.

EDIT: DAMN YOU MOBILE PHONE INTERNET WORK FASTER.

There is no reason to post. OP described the plugin count, and that is the only thing the LO would help with with this problem. Hitting that soft cap results in the symptoms described in the first post.

It's good general advice, as you never know when something might be completely screwed in the LO. I always assume first, that someone is smart, but take preparations that the person will be hospitalized from sticking their fingers in a power socket in the near future. Asking them to post an LO would add a degree of extra surety that the person in question isn't a raving looner, installing mods with no realization of what those mods intend to do. Merely following steps in a guide without the breadth of knowledge that some of us have assembled over the years... Not that I'm implying that they are lesser, it's just that it takes a long while and semi constant study to keep pace with this games mods. I'm betting even you are consistently surprised at how many facts you only learn from people who actively hack at this game and have since the beginning. Hell a year back I woulda been stunned by some of the mods I see coming into fruition right now. OBGE, I don't use it, but it's pretty [censored] amazing. As is the stuff Kyoma's got cooking, if she ever gets off her pert tush and releases. Dragoon Wraith is the same but in the masculine sense.

The point is asking someone to post a load order is my crazy checker. If they say they have 200+ mods but can't give a load order or god forbid don't know how, they are crazy. For all they know we could spot an error that BOSS has made, or that they have made hand ordering. With many eyes all bugs are shallow and all that.

Also thank you, your site is fairly vital to the community, right now. Keep on keeping on.:Fishystickswordaward:

I agree that it is good general advice. I just thought the OP wanted to know what the problem with the random defects was. There wasn't anything about CTD trying to load, but sure...

That makes sense... so going by that logic does it mean removing inactive Esps from the Data folder could help?


My entire LO isnt really relevant here... as the defect happens only when an extra one or two mods were activated.

But I'll post my current working LO anyway, the crash usually happens if I add another Better Cities or Unique Landscapes plugin on top of that, or maybe a bunch of other smaller mods for that matter.


Oblivion.esm
ScreenEffects.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Cobl Main.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Mart's Monster Mod.esm
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm
Better Cities Resources.esm
A_Bloody_Mess.esm
CM Partners.esm
HorseCombatMaster.esm
HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp
Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp
Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp
Better Cities .esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp
Better_Water.esp
AmbientTownSounds.esp
PCSoundNalia.esp
_cities_alive_at_night.esp
WindowLightingSystem.esp
Camera Mods Merged.esp
personality_idles_custom.esp
P1DseeYouSleep.esp
Enhanced Economy.esp
Crowded Cities 30.esp
Crowded Roads Advanced.esp
Duke Patricks - Friendship Ring For Companion Detection.esp
Landmarks, w Wells.esp
Expanded Hotkeys and Spell Delete v1.0.esp
Expanded Hotkeys Brief Equip Message.esp
DLCHorseArmor.esp
DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCOrrery.esp
DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCVileLair.esp
DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCSpellTomes.esp
DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp
1SB_WarhammerWingedStaff.esp
Blackheart and Gizmodian ECRobes.esp
Dread Knight Armor.esp
pale_rider's Armory of the Berserker.esp
PTArtifacts.esp
Silverlight Armor by Jojjo.esp
Wyrmfang.esp
necklacesbykalikut.esp
Dude Wheres My Horse.esp
DLCThievesDen.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp
Cobl Glue.esp
Cobl Si.esp
OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp
OOO-Magic_Effects+Enchantments.esp
OOO-Magic_Effects+Spells.esp
OOO-Magic_Game_Settings.esp
OOO-Container_Trap_Instant_Effects.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Bone Loot.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - LessReaversInGates.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Roads.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - No Fiends.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Moderate Increased.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Friendlier Factions OOO.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp
Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
Dwemer_Skyship_1_1_0.esp
LetThePeopleDrink.esp
Ushnars Skinned Hound.esp
VaultsofCyrodiil.esp
Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp
za_bankmod.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp
DLCFrostcrag.esp
DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp
Knights.esp
Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp
Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp
xulImperialIsle.esp
Oblivion Gate Map Marker Remover.esp
AutoBookPlacer.esp
A Bloody Mess - Bloody Fights.esp
BloodSpray.esp
DropLitTorchOBSE.esp
EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp
Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp
MCaleb's_Decompose_Corpse_v1.2.esp
Goranga's prostitution system.esp
defaultstand.esp
Wrye Shivering.esp
Roleplaying Dialogues.esp
Quest Award Leveling.esp
RealisticFatigue.esp
RealisticForceMedium.esp
RealisticMagicForceHigh.esp
Duke Patricks - Nosferatu Class Vampires.esp
JIM_Summon_Doppleganger.esp
SpellSinger.esp
SetBody.esp
SupremeMagicka.esp
SM_ShiveringIsles.esp
SM_DLCSpellTome.esp
SM_OOO.esp
SM_MMM.esp
SM_COBL.esp
SM_EnchantStaff.esp
SM_Scrolls.esp
SM_SigilStone.esp
EnchantmentRestore.esp
EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp
attack and hide harder v2.1.esp
ResetEmotionAfterCombat.esp
Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block and 250% damage.esp
DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp
SM_DeadlyReflex.esp
Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp
Level_Rates_Modified_x4.esp
CTAddPose_glock3.esp
Animation Merged.esp
Stylish Jump.esp
zzEstrus.esp
_Ren_BeautyPack_full.esp
Elves Of Lineage II.esp
CM Partners.esp
CM Partners Special NPCs.esp
CM Partners NPC.esp
CM Partners More NPCs.esp
CM Partners Marker NPCs.esp
CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp
DARaewyn.esp
Better Cities SKINGRAD.esp
Better Cities BRAVIL.esp
Better Cities CHORROL.esp
ScreenControls.esp
qazFingerSnap.esp
HGEC Part A.esp
HGEC Part B.esp
MRP Merged.esp
retroactive health.esp
Increased Training Allowance.esp
PureSteelBlade.esp
Talon of Akatosh Claymore.esp
Arena_BattlesV1.2.esp
HGEC Boots.esp
StrappedQuiver.esp
fwRaceChangeRing.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp
Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp
FormID Finder4.esp
Streamline 3.1.esp


Some of the Merged armour mods contains around 50 or mods in total, also mods which are merged into the Bashed Patch isnt shown here.

As matter of interest, is there any reason why you don't use Better Cities Full? It would save two slots on your list and give all of BC.

I just didnt like the Imperial City in BC, thats all. I am actually hoping that they'll release merged plugins for Better Cities and Better Imperial City separately in the future.

Anyway, my problem has been solved. Turns out there were around 200 inactive Esps and Bsas sitting in my Data folder, now all moved to a safe location

Thanks for the help guys.

Also of note is Bash's "auto-ghost" feature, which "ghosts" all your inactive .esp/ms by adding a .ghost extension to the filename, preventing the game from overdosing on them.

Thanks, I'll bare that in mind for next time.