Agree 100% with the OP!!! I want to go have fun not get punished for not perfectly balancing my skill progression. UGHHHH

YES!!! :toughninja:

watching your skills and attributes go up is not an indicator of your progress? You live in a mad, mad world!

I think the leveling system is perfectly fine. I just play the game and I don't even think about leveling. Seriously guys, whats the point of making sure you reach the max level. You say you just want to go have fun, then just have fun and play! It doesn't matter what level you are, just have fun with what you're at.

Also, what's the big deal about making a spreadsheet?

OCD my friend, OCD.

Yes please, to using a GCD/nGCD like system for levelling in TESV.

I guess it's hard for me to understand why you can't just let it go because I just simply don't have OCD. Let's make an OCD cure!

I completely agree with the OP.

The levelling system is good in theory, but terrible in practice. When I first played Morrowind, I saw the 'do-stuff = do-stuff-better' mechanic and was psyched. I would do a bit of this and a bit of that, I'd swim rather than run, I would go looking for fights etc. However I quickly learned that training hard wasn't nearly as a effective as training smart. The game encourages you to pick two attributes each level and ignore all the skills associated with the rest. Otherwise you are cheating yourself. I don't mind when particular skill combinations aren't that effective, but I do mind when the ordering of actions becomes important. I hate that choosing endurance then intelligence is more effective than intelligence then endurance. I find it silly when training minor skills before major skills yields better rewards then inverting the two.

Rant over.

Solution. Realistically, I would prefer it if levelling were hidden from me. I think the various mods are an improvement, but I still feel there is a better solution available too. I would prefer if attributes gained bonuses like skills, but not because of skills per se.
For instance:
Strength: When I use a weapon or shield, I would expect my Strength to slowly increase. When I run long distances at 99% capacity I would expect my Strength to slowly increase.
Agility: Whenever a monster swings at me, but doesn't connect, I woudl expect my Agility to slowly increase. Whenever I hit an enemy with a bow, I would expect my agility to increase.
Speed: Whenever I run/swim/jump I would expect speed to slowly increase.

Etc etc etc.

Considering how trivial these things would be to include, I'm surprised they aren't already : \

Didn't read whole thread, but I have to say, this pertains to THE feature that erks me in tes.
Let me paint a little picture for you:
It's 3am and I am sitting in bed with my xbox controller in one hand and a donut in the other, playing with one hand. I realize that oh crap i am about to level up and i need to make sure i have certain modifiers. Well, my character spreadsheet i made is completely out of sight and i still have a donut in my hand. Why can't there be an in-game display of how much my attributes are due to increase on level up?
I mean, why not just have something like this on the character sheet, something that indicates the current modifier right next to your attributes:

Srength.........60 (+2)
Iintelligence...85 (+4)
Willpower......87 (+3)
Agility...........62 (+1)
Speed...........48 (+1)
Endurance.....70 (+2)
Personality....45 (+1)
Luck.............51

I appologize for all the hardcoe forum people who may tell me this horse has been beaten, but I just think it is so simple a thing to erase so much hassle.
Don't like your current modifier shown? well just train some appropriate skills and check the char menu again to see if the modifier has changed!

Does anyone know if Skyrim will be just like Morrowind and Oblivion in this department?

I agree with this. I played Oblivion on a console a lot, and I hate the feeling of doing anything that negatively impacts my character's potential. For a single player game, I think it's reasonable that you shouldn't have to stress so much to have a good character. In multiplayer, it's different and it's reasonable to say, "Quit complaining." But there's no reason for the leveling system to be so demanding.

Anyway, it seems as though Skyrim is going to balance it out significantly.

I too made a spreadsheet for Oblivion leveling. From what I've read though, the Skyrim leveling system is overhauled.

I lol'd when I read this topic thread. There's still a doc on my desktop as we speak entitled "Oblivion Stat Tracker"...My friends have given me so much hell for this, but it's kinda necessary. When I was playing efficiently, there were major differences than playing for the fun of it. For instance, I couldn't jump (how dare I level my acrobatics), I couldn't swing my sword this level, and I dare not speak to anyone in fear of a speech-craft increase. The payout was nice though, the maximum bonus really made this method a different kind of challenge.

I'm fine with this in Skyrim. Usually I sit down uneducated for my first run through, I get a change to enjoy the world and game without walkthroughs and hints and I also keep a mental log of how the game plays. When I'm ready to create a new character I'm fine with reverting to the efficient "spreadsheet" leveling because I've already experienced the core mechanics and wonder of the world they've created. To each his own but I really hope there's enough depth in the game and not an overall simplification...We should be able to nerd-the-hell-out if we want!

Yes, I definately get that OCD, and I really don't mind . Skyrim should fix that issue since there are no longer any "major" skills, and thus no "minor" skills to exploit.

Ah, yes. I distinctly remember not responding to this post before because my time is valuable. However, this thread has been bumped and caught me on a slow Sunday night. Lucky you.

My response is, in summary, "not necessarily". If I work on my light armour and marksman all throughout the game and master those skills, why would I then switch to heavy armour and blunt when the game is at its hardest? The average difficulty of the game should ramp up as you go through so that the PC gains power comparative to the enemies of the world but their lowest skills fall behind. For instance, I start the game on 25 marksman and 25 blunt. I decide to play a marksman character, so at the beginning of the game when things are easiest my marksman skill raises faster than the enemies get more difficult. Then, a way through the MQ and quite high into PC levels, my marksman is 100 and my blunt is still 25. Randomly generated enemies are now harder on average and the MQ enemies are a lot tougher. Why would I switch to my pathetic blunt skill? It's not up to scratch.

And if I decide to put off advancement and find some low level enemies to train my blunt on to become a master of all trades, why the hell not?

The rate of advancement and length of the game should be intertwined such that specialised characters max out towards the end of 100% completion if they don't grind whatsoever. Players who go out of their way to train their PC's skills in a more controlled environment should have that effort rewarded by having their character become good at everything they train them in - just like every major TES instalment so far has allowed us.

It's all a moot point anyway, since BGS has decided to adopt an artificial level cap - your skill advancement slows to a crawl after 100.