Why Dibella? : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:31 am

At the beginning of KOTN it is Dibella's Chapel that is desecrated, all the priests murdered, and runes written in blood around the Alter of the Nine. Why was it Dibella's chapel that is targeted first? Some sort of ancient animosity between Umaril or Meridia against the Goddess of beauty? The effect that slaughtering the harmless priests of beauty would have on the population? Random chance? Or simply that Anvil is the nearest city to Garlas Malatar?

Thoughts.

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:53 am

At the beginning of KOTN it is Dibella's Chapel that is desecrated, all the priests murdered, and runes written in blood around the Alter of the Nine. Why was it Dibella's chapel that is targeted first? Some sort of ancient animosity between Umaril or Meridia against the Goddess of beauty? The effect that slaughtering the harmless priests of beauty would have on the population? Random chance? Or simply that Anvil is the nearest city to Garlas Malatar?

Thoughts.

This is most likely.

» Fri May 27, 2011 5:20 am

Bubble in letter D.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:49 pm

The Aurorans and Umaril weren't in the best of shape, after all..they'd only just woken up after several thousand years.

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:53 pm

[censored]?

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:13 pm

[censored]?

It's the grand old Ayleid way.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:16 pm

If only the et'ada had mathematical equations and values, a great deal could understood.

Some Daedric forces seem to have antitheses. If Umaril believed that by casting down Dibella, he was serving a purpose to Meridia...

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:17 pm

If only the et'ada had mathematical equations and values, a great deal could understood.

Some Daedric forces seem to have antitheses. If Umaril believed that by casting down Dibella, he was serving a purpose to Meridia...

I would think that if any Aedra were the counter parts to Meridia, they'd be either Kynareth or Arkay - considering her obsession/hatred for the undead.

It's more likely the Dibella chapel was, as the OP said, targeted because of its geographical proximity to the place Umaril made his headquarters.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:32 pm

I never considered the hatred for undead to be a staple in Meridia's sphere; maybe not though. I'm willing to accept that it was just geographical, but there has to be a better reason.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:13 pm

I never considered the hatred for undead to be a staple in Meridia's sphere; maybe not though.

She makes no secret of her opinions on necromancers and undead things in her shrine quest in Oblivion. She hates and despises them.

I'm willing to accept that it was just geographical, but there has to be a better reason.

Occam's razor...the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am

Occam's razor...the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

You forget. BATW wins over Occam's Razor.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:47 pm

Just because hating the undead is the official quest, doesn't mean that hating the undead defines her character. Has it not occurred to you that the sphere of a Daedric prince leaves room for a bit of personality? Let's not forget Azura and a few of her actions that go against her perfume and sunshine paradise.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:34 am

Just because hating the undead is the official quest, doesn't mean that hating the undead defines her character. Has it not occurred to you that the sphere of a Daedric prince leaves room for a bit of personality? Let's not forget Azura and a few of her actions that go against her perfume and sunshine paradise.

It doesn't have to define her. It's an aspect of intrigue, though. And since we know so little about her from previous games, this is one of the few major personality points we know about her.

We know a lot more about Azura and can naturally assume she's not always honest or forth right. Other Princes are different.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:05 am

If anything Meridia is a goddess of rock and roll, life fast, life hard and leave a good looking corpse. You can see this in the way she creates the massive growing tentacles and her association with illicit spectra/radiation, things go fast at first but everything is dead afterwards.

---

Umaril has his angelic face kicked in by Pelinal, this might have caused some animosity with the goddess of beauty. Meridia doesn't seem to be directly involved as everything suggest this is Umarils personal quest for vengeance on the gods that dethroned him.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:31 am

If anything Meridia is a goddess of rock and roll, life fast, life hard and leave a good looking corpse. You can see this in the way she creates the massive growing tentacles and her association with illicit spectra/radiation, things go fast at first but everything is dead afterwards.

---

Umaril has his angelic face kicked in by Pelinal, this might have caused some animosity with the goddess of beauty. Meridia doesn't seem to be directly involved as everything suggest this is Umarils personal quest for vengeance on the gods that dethroned him.

I've always wondered about the earth tentacle terror-of-the-most-terror Meridia-come thing. They're present in nearly every Ayleid ruin. Does that mean that Meridia suddenly shunned the Ayleids? Did the Ayleids favor her over other Daedra?

I was always under the impression that they worshiped Auri-el, and merely looked up to certain Daedra as hosts, aligning themselves with them upon a ritual act of ascendancy.

"But Meridiaaaaaaaa he broke my massssssk and made fun of my ancestorrrrrrs!!!'

"Ok Umy, I'll let you go back to Mundus with a few more of my Aurorans, but only after you sit in time-out and think about what you did."

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:55 pm

I've always wondered about the earth tentacle terror-of-the-most-terror Meridia-come thing. They're present in nearly every Ayleid ruin.

I'd assumed that, in every case except Abagarlas, those roots were just regular roots. None of the ruins are in very good shape, after all, so I think it's reasonable enough to assume that surrounding roots could have pushed their way in all on their own. The plant life in Abagarlas is much more plentiful than the roots in the other ruins, too.

Interestingly, when I went to look up the name of that ruin in UESP, I found this quote on http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Sideways_Cave:

The official Prima guide lists Sideways Cave in its Freeform Quests section as one of the more interesting dungeons and has this to say about the tablets: "Can you put it all together? The big picture is that, long ago, Ayleid settlers stumbled onto this grotto. They made it their own--in the end, too much their own. In doing so, they uncovered a forgotten shrine to the Daedra lord Meridia. Meridia's vengeance for this violation was swift: She crushed Abargarlas with her stone roots and, incensed that some survivors escaped, buried the grotta almost entirely."

And yeah, I know, the canonicity of that is dubious, at best.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:45 am

My friends,

I personally think that the Aurorans aiding Umaril does not prove that Meridia was a party to the assault. To quote Haskill of the Shivering Isles: "How typical. You mortals love to take a pebble of information and construct entire realms of conjecture upon it. Your lore of those disparate beings that you lump together as "daedra" is based on nothing -- lies and half-truths told by traitors, rebels, miscontents and weaklings who have had the misfortune to become involved with mortals. ... Do you think you know anything of the politics, factions, feuds, vendettas, wars of Oblivion? Do you think Oblivion such a simple place, that the tale of the loyalties of a great people such as the Mazken could be encompassed in a brief tale?" (http://www.imperial-library.info/interviews/si_interview.shtml)

I believe that the first assault was based upon geography.

However, if the location were based upon the goddess, then I would formulate the following (very undeveloped) theory:

Meridia was formerly an Aedra prior to [doing whatever] with unclean spirits. I wonder what Aedra could have taught her that...*hint hint*. She may be a bit miffed at the other little lady that led her astray. I guess now she learns her tricks from Sanguine.

___TWM

» Fri May 27, 2011 12:59 am

Umaril was sorcerer-king of Cyrod with all its now-ruined works.

Those apes worship their pretensions of beauty in this sty?!?

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:03 pm

I'm pretty sure the Ayleids had a different idea of beauty. Golden, full-body armor, body mutilation, and feathers, lots and lots of feathers.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:04 pm

Like the Aztecs. Kind of.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:31 am

I'm pretty sure the Ayleids had a different idea of beauty. Golden, full-body armor, body mutilation, and feathers, lots and lots of feathers.

http://ladybloodflower.deviantart.com/art/5th-set-IV-81643340
http://ladybloodflower.deviantart.com/art/5th-set-III-81643244

That's what I was thinking off, but you might not want to look at that if you don't like needles going through people's skin. It's descent otherwise.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:48 am

I'm pretty sure the Ayleids had a different idea of beauty. Golden, full-body armor, body mutilation, and feathers, lots and lots of feathers.

Exactly my point. If the L'ouvre was taken over and filled with porcine pormography I'd sure want to burn it down.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:06 am

That's what I was thinking off, but you might not want to look at that if you don't like needles going through people's skin. It's descent otherwise.

Give her pointy ears and she'd make a pretty good Ayleid, I think.

http://ladybloodflower.deviantart.com/art/Feathered-39548133 is also a good example.

Yeah, I can see Umaril being downright annoyed by the staid and rather stale version of 'divine beauty' embodied by the Anvil Chapel. Anyone familiar with Daggerfall's version of the Dibellite cult and its temples might have felt motivated in a similarly wrathful direction, to be honest.

» Fri May 27, 2011 1:55 pm

marked as mature content?

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:00 am

marked as mature content?

Somewhat arbitrarily. There is no nudity in any of the pictures linked to. Piercings and tattoos, yes. Nudity, no.

EDIT: Although I should add that some of that artist's other pictures do contain nudity. But you won't see them by following the posted links.