So I have a reading response tomorrow where I have to compare Milton's Satan of Paradise Lost to the religious or pop culture Satan I know. I started reading Book 1 of Paradise Lost , and an idea popped into my head: I should compare Milton's Satan to Dagoth Ur.

It just really reminded me of Morrowind, especially the description of Hell...I mean it seems to me to be Dagoth Ur's lair.

So, I was wondering if there is a fan site out there that does a good job of detailing Dagoth Ur and his relationship with the world / nevervaine(sp), or if any of you can contribute what you know. It's been something like four years since I've played Morrowind, and I certainly don't have time to try and capture a good description of Ur by tomorrow on my own.

Some things I wonder are his attitude toward his allies (though I don't think this is evident from the game, but maybe some of the in game literature described this and I missed it), his attitude toward the Nev~ and how he tempts / taunts him (like the dreams and such), and his reaction to his home (if he has one).

Like in Paradise Lost Satan recognizes that his home is something God didn't want, so is the Red Mountain a place that the people of Vvanderfell didn't want? Did they build that forcefield to isolate it? Did they care that Dagoth Ur was there until he started messing with things in the outside world?

How did Dagoth Ur end up at Red Mountain?

How about Ur's minions and cult members. What were those cult like guys called, and how did they view Dagoth Ur?

I know I'm asking a lot, but I think this would make a unique reading response, and it will be fun to work on.

I wish I would have read Paradise Lost before, it's really interesting! We also read Milton's speech Areopagitia(sp) which was amazing! (the speech for freedom of press)

Morrowind != Pop Culture. In most likelihood your teacher/professor will just go wtf?!.

Haha, actually I've had really good results when comparing lit to video games in the past.

I usually get A's on whatever assignment it is with comments like "really unique anolysis".

I'd direct you to the http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=72791987&pageid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=dagoth+ur if I was me.

:)

Of dreamers, by imperial summons call'd, innumerable before the Sharmat's throne, from all ends of Morrowind appear'd

Wow, great resource! Thanks a ton!

It's also been said that the Daedra are similar to fallen angels, being rebels who were too proud to participate in the Mundus' creation.

While mortals in TES have the potential to become gods or more than gods, the Daedra are essentially frozen in their current roles and can never reach CHIM, for example.

(I'm reminded of something I read in Marvel Comics back in the 1970s or so; humans find out that the humanoid alien empire called the Kree are stagnant, while humans will continue to evolve. In so many words, it's said that even if they live a billion years more, the Kree race will never advance.)

Wrong approach. The Sharmat sleeps at the Center, at the Heart of World surrounded by Heart's Blood. His origins are the same as the Tribunal and he is very much a part of who the Dunmer people are.

Wonderful idea!!! I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Paradise Lost is also anologous to Animal House (yeah, the old movie). At least that's how my critical approaches to literature professor felt when he made us write a paper comparing the two.

Anyway, I don't know about the people of Vvardenfell not wanting Red Mountain, but I figure Magnus never intended for it to exist. He was the architect of Nirn. He abandoned the project before it was finished, and the events surrounding the removal of Lorkhan's heart caused the volcano.

The Dunmer don't regard Red Mountain as an Ash heap they'd like to forget: it's the center of their world. It looms large in their consciousness and drastically defines the places they live, the things they eat and the way they act. In this anology, Vvardenfell is a world of Hell.

Yeah, Pandaemonium.

It's easy to compare Dagoth-Ur to a fallen angel, really, if you consider that Lucifer's greatest vices (in Catholic belief, at least) are pride and betrayal -- both of which the Sharmat achieves. Also, one of Paradise Lost's greatest controversies is whether or not Satan is a sympathetic character, given the depths to which Milton explores his motivations; compare those to the motivations present in Dagoth Ur's Plans and, more importantly, in his speech to the Nerevarine http://www.imperial-library.info/tsomw/mw_20.shtml. And, finally, given the Nerevarine's own status as a messianic figure and the fact that he/she defeats Dagoth Ur, comparisons can be drawn to the Judeo-Christian Messiah and His eventual defeat of Satan (both at the end of times and through the Resurrection).

Really, it's easier to do this with a comparison to Christianity in general than Milton, but that's just my advice.

I could easily buy into your theory. Having the proud yet noble figure imprisoned within his fiery realm and striving to escape only to better his people. Also compare to Lord Asriel from the Dark Materials books, although that's a bit more obvious.

BTW, somewhere in the game they mention that the ghost fence was established to keep all the ash zombies et. al. inside the zone.

If Dagoth is Satan, does that make the Nerevarine the Son?

A legend of a Messiah that would return to cast down Evil, and lead his people to a golden age? Yes, I think thats fits in pretty close.

Has anyone read Memnoch the Devil, by Anne Rice? A very well-written work, thats not all about pretty-boy vampires, I think of Dagoth Ur, in those terms.

The reason Dagoth Ur is in red mountain because he was asked by Indoril Nerevar to guard the heart (i think), he gave into temptation and used the heart to make him god-like

Comparing Morrowind to anything outside of Morrowind is like comparing Pulp Fiction to Blues Clues.

It'll just make people go 'What the [censored]?'

Comparing Dagoth Ur to Milton's Satan begs the question, was Dagoth Ur's fall a fortunate one? I'm quite sure that the Felix Culpa (Fortunate Fall) of Paradise Lost, can be applied not only to Adam and Eve's Fall but also to Satan and the angels who fell with him: they weren't damned to Hell for eternity but could, if they had the humility, return to Heaven to serve God. Does Dagoth Ur have the same ticket back to grace, or not? It's a pretty central idea to Paradise Lost.

Stern Gamboge
Imperial Scribe