I like the shape of the vault security helmet, but wanted to re-tex it to look like it has a cloth cover.
I redid the texture and added it in nifskope and at the same time reduced the material property gloss, from 60 to 10
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/VonGrantoven/TacHelmet.jpg
I was pretty happy with the look in nifskope.
I definitely wanted it to have a matt texture, so I made sure the alpha channel of the normal map was almost black and saved it as a Dxt1 (1bit alpha)

Unfortunately, in-game it still comes out as shiny as a ball-bearing!
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/VonGrantoven/tacHelmetGloss.jpg
What am I doing wrong and how can I fix it?

Mm, have you maybe tried making the normal map's alpha channel 100% black? I think one bit alpha = either completely white, or completely black, so 'almost black' may be read as 100% white in-game.

*uses dxt5/9 mips with a soft sharpening filter, normally*

I hope that helps, good luck. ^_^;

If you're using GIMP, black and white are bass-ackwards.

Also, try saving it as a DXT5 just to see if it works if you aren't.

Use a program called http://developer.nvidia.com/object/windows_texture_viewer.html to see what the alpha looks like. The keys R, G, B, and A control which channels are visible.

I tried saving as Dxt5 with a completely black alpha channel and a scale of 20 on the height generation to try to bring out the cloth texture.
I use Photoshop CS3 with the Nvidia normal map filter, btw.

This made a major difference to the glossiness.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/VonGrantoven/TacBetterGloss-1.jpg
Unfortunately, its not quite there yet. There are still some very clear highlights (you can just notice the brighter areas in the screenshot), which inspite of the texture, seem to act like a light reflection on a smooth polished surfaced.
Its much better but still a bit annoying.
Is it possible that these are somehow built into the actual model rather than coming from the normal map?

I wouldn't know, sorry.

Mm, I am very new to Fallout's ways, and MadCat likely knows much better, but I probably would recommend trying 100% black, which should suit a matted surface. You could perhaps maybe also try adding a noise layer (correct term?) over the normal map, which I am presuming is the same used by the original 'smooth' helmet? Mm, where the original more defines the overall shape, the 'noise' would be a normal map generated from your diffuse texture, to add... well, more texture. ^_^;

Overlay the red and green channels, and multiply the blue channels to merge normal maps, I think.

Edit: Sorry if that was redundant. I am not sure what "and a scale of 20 on the height generation" meant, and assumed it to mean you were converting the normal map to a height map (though, the scale doesn't effect that, as far as I know), and then reducing the brightness of that and using it as the alpha channel. Mm, and I use Photoshop CS2 with the same plug-in... just to avoid confusion. ^_^

Actually, the screen was taken with 100% black alpha with a new normal made from the new cloth cover diffuse texture. The diffuse already has a fair bit of "noise" to give the clothy texture and this seems to carry over into the normal quite well.

**Update: Problem Solved**
I figured out what was causing the reflective highlights! The nif also uses env and env mask maps also. I thought I had canceled both of these by making them 100% black, but the problem was that apparently you have to save the environment maps as a cube map or it defaults to the original from the .bsa!
Details are here:
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/articles/article.php?id=197
Saving my 100% black _e map this way results in no more shininess!

I think the new texture looks just like the cloth cam covers used by Spec Ops teams and definitely does away with the plasticy shin I always hated about the stock vault security helmet. I think it will go well with my new sneaky Tac suit.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/VonGrantoven/TacHelmetMatt.jpg

Many thanks for all the help with this!

That does look much better than the original. :3

Also, thank you for the tutorial, that is all new to me, too. ^_^;

Thanks, Its my new favorite helmet now (I have made it slightly lighter/more protective than the stock. I figure the Tac teams would get fancier kevlar/carbon fiber gear than the average renta-cop).

Yeah, good tutorial. It definitely clarified a few things I wasn't aware of.
And thanks again for your suggestion to save as a dxt5. That was definitely the key to solving the overall gloss problem with the alpha.

*EDIT* Nevermind, you found out about environmental maps.

.. never mind

Ummm... that's for Oblivion NIFs. Fallout 3 NIFs are a later version and use a whole different system.



Just turn the environmental reflection off.

The shader flags are mislabeled in NIFSkope IIRC. The following are of interest:

SF_MULTIPLE_TEXTURES controls the use of environmental reflection maps. You'll also want to set the BSShaderPPLightingProperty's Unknown Int 2 to equal 32769, otherwise it'll be super-bright shiny even in the dark. You'll also want to make sure that the Consistency Flag in the NiTriShapeData (or NiTriStripsData) is set to CT_STATIC. Or you can just turn it off in your case.

SF_LOCALMAP_HIDE_SECRET controls parallax occlusion. The shader system can now load that from a completely separate texture instead of hiding it in the diffuse's alpha map now. Its slot in the BSShaderTextureSet in NIFSkope is the 5th from the top. Parallax maps are a bit tricky to do, but look great if you do it right. Remember not to go overboard with it. 50% gray is "baseline" for a height map like what parallax occlusion uses. I do not know if parallax plays nice with glow maps in FO3. They didn't in Oblivion...

All (or at least the vast majority) of the meshes seem to have SF_ZBUFFER_TEST, SF_EMPTY, and SF_UNKNOWN_31 checked, so you should do the same.

You are correct, of course.
Got my mod forums mixed up

Thanks Madcat,
All that is very interesting, though mostly over my head at the moment. I have been playing with nifskope a fair bit over the last month and am constantly discovering new things it can do.
All the settings on the helmet are consistent with the values you posted.
Question: Does the SF_Multiple_Textures only affect the environmental reflection maps? Not any of the other maps?

Yeah. As I said, the vast majority of the shader flags are mislabeled.

You can uncheck SF_MULTIPLE_TEXTURES to get rid of the glare entirely. You can then delete out the _e texture and the _m textures from the texture set. Just two less maps the game has to load...

Excellent piece of information! Thanks for that.

On a slightly related note, since you seem to know your way around nifskope... Sometimes after playing around with a kitbashed model, I finish up by going through the optimize/sanitize routines. On occasion this results in the firing sound being stripped from the model.
Any idea why this happend and how to avoid it?

Sounds like you broke the rule of "if you don't know what it does, don't fiddle with it".

If you're just splicing in stuff into an existing gun mesh, all you really need to do is maybe stripify all trishapes. NiTriStrips are easier to render than NiTriShapes, especially if they've been PyFFI'd as well.

He he, like Nero, I'm a compulsive fiddler. Sometimes you have to break stuff to find out what they do.


In the 'case of the missing firing sounds', I was trying to build a crossbow out stretched and mangled bits from about 5 other models. Quite a learning experience actually.
I was pretty happy with the result, except for the fact that it ended up disconceringly silent.
:shrug:
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff292/VonGrantoven/DartCrossbow1.jpg

Still, I never would have discovered that nifs can carry sound info if it wasn't for that little exercise.
You don't happen to know how the sound elements are controlled do you?

I think the actual sound-triggering elements are in the associated KF files for each anim set. Hooks for them are in the NIF though.

On a test gun for a vanilla model, or some other gun mesh you have lying about in-game, do the Optimize option "Remove Bogus Nodes". Tell me how many nodes it says it removes, and whether or not it plays sound in-game afterwards. Make sure you back up the mesh before doing so.

Mm, it doesn't really seem big enough to make a new topic for, so I thought to post it here instead. Hopefully somebody can help. ^_^;

http://www.box.net/shared/afphtyxnhg

When I use this (Gloves/Muffler are 'add-ons' to the apparel item) with the http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12144, left glove's texture seems to be replaced by a vault suit's (only distorted, because the uv map doesn't match).

Edit:... okay. I went to go and take a screenshot, and it was magically back to normal. Sorry, nevermind. >_<;